Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 01:09:12 AM by George Shelps

mAfter posting under numerous pseudonyms, Jenks has blatantly returned.

Since he is an off-topic bigot, I call upon you, Mr Cones, to excise his posts.

 

 

Mr. Shelps to Stop Playing Joe-Censor
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 04:29:23 PM by James Jaeger

>Since he is an off-topic bigot, I call upon you, Mr Cones, to excise his posts.

Since one of FIRM's central observations is that the MPAA studio/distributors are dominated/controlled by a narrowly defined demographic, i.e., politically liberal, not very religious Jewish males of European heritage, it is entirely ON-TOPIC for anyone, including Mr. Jenks, to address the question of exactly what we mean by the term "Jewish."

James Jaeger

Re(1): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 10:00:15 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

"Numerous pseudonyms?"

1) I have responded EXPRESSLY to Levine's comment (which is NOT censored) that "Judaism is not racism."
Why should Levine always get a free pass? Why should he get to lie about NUMEROUS things at this forum? Is it because you think he is implicitly "chosen" to be above other commentators, and no one is allowed to respond critically to him?

If he has any integrity at all (and I don't think he does), he should insist upon seeing our argument about WHAT HE BROUGHT UP AT THIS FORUM completely through to its natural conclusion: his moral and factual defeat.

2) The first thought of someone who cannot win a debate is to censor the commments, however intelligent, and documented they are. You're a little toady censor, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Is censorship and allegiance to Jewish racism what being a "Christian" means to you? Your endorsement of censorship, Shleps, is an act of cowardice and deceit.

3) You, Shleps, are a sychophant (psycho-phant?) for racist Israel. All the Jewish defamation of THE PASSION OF CHRIST should open your eyes and make you rethink your support of the anti-Christian Jewish community, but you do not.

We've got a long list of articles of Jewish assault upon THE PASSION here:

http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/gibson2.htm

Their position about THE PASSION is often quite the same as yours is here about me: the film should be BANNED, the same way you function here as a KLAN pimp.

4) It is impossible to discuss THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST (and so much else) without commentary about the social, political, and cultural worlds that inform it. The CULTURE WAR that informs our day, and THE PASSION OF CHRIST, is not about "film" per se. But the surrounding CULTURE WAR is the HEART of any intelligent analysis of that movie.

5) Everything I have posted in rebuttal to Levine is true, and documented.

Re(2): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 00:57:59 AM by Mitchell Levine

I have responded EXPRESSLY to Levine's comment (which is NOT censored) that "Judaism is not racism."
Why should Levine always get a free pass? Why should he get to lie about NUMEROUS things at this forum? Is it because you think he is implicitly "chosen" to be above other commentators, and no one is allowed to respond critically to him?

- It's hardly a "lie," it's simply not what you believe, and you are NOT the final arbiter of Truth. Jews can be racist in the same way anyone else can be.

That hardly means Judaism is racist when it pledges allegiance to a group which is not a racial group, and accepts all racial groups into its body. All your stupid claim is is a slur.

f he has any integrity at all (and I don't think he does), he should insist upon seeing our argument about WHAT HE BROUGHT UP AT THIS FORUM completely through to its natural conclusion: his moral and factual defeat.

- The only "moral and factual defeat" it's led to is yours: you're just too moronic to realize it. Quite simply, Jews are not a racial group as Caucasians, Blacks, Asians and so on are. You don't like it, but you can't refute it, and you know it. End of story.

The first thought of someone who cannot win a debate is to censor the commments, however intelligent, and documented they are

- Your comments aren't "intelligent," or well-documented: they're illogical, irrational, and filled with factual errors, up to and including characterizing people as "Jewish" that are not. You misquote, quote out of context, and, above all, use pastiches of quotes to try and establish theses that aren't supported by any of your "documented sources." In short, you're a liar.

Anytime you want to get up in public and debate in front of a neutral panel of judges to see whose ability is superior, I'll be there to humiliate you in front of a live audience and watch your fragile ego structure shattered in abject, total defeat.

Of course, that constitutes the entire history of your life, but that's a subject for another day.

Re(3): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:53:21 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

I invite anyone to read the full content of this thread to make up their minds about the authenticity of our respective positions -- and this discussion is still developing. There is much, much more research at my disposal.

By the way, Mr. Levine, you say this:

"Anytime you want to get up in public and debate in front of a neutral panel of judges to see whose ability is superior, I'll be there to humiliate you in front of a live audience and watch your fragile ego structure shattered in abject, total defeat.
Of course, that constitutes the entire history of your life, but that's a subject for another day."

This is the bravado of third graders, and the focus upon smear and defamation that is the ESSENCE of your position. I am also getting really tired hearing how brilliant you think you are. Tell it to your image in the mirror each morning if you must, but stating that you're brilliant on an Internet forum is considerably less, sir, than "anecdotal." It's kind of weird and it underscores an enormous insecurity on your part.

Let your arguments fly as they may. Claiming you're a genius isn't going to lift them off the ground any higher.

Re(2): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 01:45:22 PM by Mitchell Levine

Once again, Jenks, the Evil Scumbag of FIRM, proves that if he wasn't a stupid asshole that lied, he wouldn't be a stupid, lying asshole

-The question wasn't even "is Judaism racism," but, "do Jews constitute an anthropological racial group?"

Answer: they don't - because you can convert to Judaism, and you can't convert to a racial group, which can be entered only by birth.

His "arguments" to the contrary - typical of his slow-witted, low-powered "intellect" - include the following:

1) It's difficult to convert to Judaism -

The obvious stupidity of this lie is evident in the fact that the degree of difficulty of joining a group doesn't affect it's status as a race: a racial group by definition is IMPOSSIBLE to join except by being born into. No one in history has ever converted to being Asian, because you can't change the color of your skin.

2) "Jews don't like converts."

- Once again, this idiotic lie has nothing to do with the question: if you can convert to a social group, it is by definition not a race.

Of course, exactly why every synagogue in the entire nation goes out of its way to set up programs specifically for converts,if Jews don't like converts is never explained.

His reply "to help cover up their racism!" is ridiculous, as the existence of converts demonstrates that Jews don't meet the anthropological definition of a race.

3) Anthropologists who agree that Jews do not meet the scientific definiton of a race like Gordon Allport, a Scottish Episcopalian minister, are actually "Jewish."

- This should give you a clue about the validity of his "research," and the importance he attaches to factuality.

4) The fact that both white Russians and Ethiopians are considered Jewish "proves" Jews are a race, not an ethnicity.

- Yet another example of the "clear-headed" thinking for which this dickhead is sui generis: Exactly how people with differently colored skin and other contrasting biological indicators could both be members of the same racial group is similarly inexplicable.

The rest of his ignorant bullshit is equally as "factual" as his claim that Allport is Jewish (he has a long history of claiming non-Jews that do things he doesn't like are Jewish).

Re(3): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 09:29:58 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

I haven't got time right now to refute every Levine detail. As time allows, I will.

For now, I note that Levine talks about the fact that it's not difficult to convert to Judaism ... Well, ain't that a fact:


In 1997, a rabbi associated with Israel's Ministry of Religious Affairs, Mikhail Dushinsky, was caught in a scandal when he was secretly filmed telling a young couple (two news reporters posing as a Jewish man and his non-Jewish pregnant girlfriend) that he would do a quick under-the-table conversion to Judaism for her (which would expedite access to social services in Israel) for $15,000. [GUARDIAN, 2-22-97] " Don't tell her what's going on," Rabbi Dushinsky told the undercover reporter, "She shouldn't think Judaism is something you buy with money." [SCHOFFMAN, p. 23] After the tape was broadcast on Israeli TV, "dozens of other converts and aspiring converts" came forward with stories of "being subjected to the same sort of extortion." [DERFNER, HIDDEN, p. 10]

Rabbi Alan Lew notes a similar tale in America:

"When [a dying Jewish man's] wife realized that she couldn't be buried next to him because she wasn't Jewish, she decided she wanted to convert, but only on her terms. She wasn't willing to go to the mikvah, she wasn't willing to study, she wasn't willing to be interrogated by rabbis. 'I've been married to a Jewish man for forty years,' she said. 'That ought to be enough.' I said I couldn't convert her under those circumstances, so she found a rabbi who would, an Orthodox rabbi who agreed to convert her for a large sum of money and no other requirements." [LEW, A., 1999, p. 234]

Such "Judaism for sale" stories echo that of the Israeli consular official -- Eliezer Yitzhaki -- in Ethiopia who was recalled to the Jewish state for allegedly selling Israeli tourist visas to Ethiopians for over $4,000 apiece. Many Ethiopians, Jewish or not, seek a better economic prospects out of the African Third World country. [MELMAN, Y., 6-222-01]

Re(4): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 10:39:36 PM by Mitchell Levine

This has nothing to do with the question at hand: organized Judaism requires that a person spend a certain length studying Jewish culture and history before conversion.

Making a conversion to a religion and way of life isn't like changing brands of razor blades; it's a serious commitment, and there's nothing wrong whatsoever with wanting a aspirant to demonstrate their sincerity. Compared to the conversion process in Vedanta that I went through, it's a walk in the park.

The fact that these people took a corrupt shortcut to get what they wanted only makes a statement about them.

Re(3): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 04:53:24 PM by James Jaeger

Mitchell,

I'm glad Jim Jenks has come here to provide an alternative view to my question of whether being Jewish is a function of race, religion or other.

I have carefully read both your posts and Mr. Jenk's posts and it seems to me that basically being Jewish is a matter of race. It also seems to me that people are allowed to "convert" to Judaism so it looks less racist, more politically correct in today's world.

I have re-acquired that book on genetic studies of Jewish genes and will be posting some excerpts from it. Here is scientific DNA evidence that there is a definite Jewish line, especially in the Cohen line. This same book indicates that Jewish inbreeding over the centuries has less of a deleterious effect on mental and physical ability than once thought. I will relate these facts as well to dispel any myths that Jews are at higher risk of mental retardation.


James Jaeger

P.S. I would appreciate if you would stop using foul language to address Mr. Jenks, such as an "Evil Scumbag," "stupid asshole," "bigot," "lying asshole." This goes for George Shelps as well. Any more of this and both your may be deleted.

Lastly, once all views of what it means to be Jewish have been fairly posted, in a gentlemanly fashion, I ask that this discussion relate further posts to the film industry.

Re(4): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 08:21:55 PM by George Shelps

I would appreciate if you would stop using foul language to address Mr. Jenks, such as an "Evil Scumbag," "stupid asshole," "bigot," "lying asshole." This goes for George Shelps aswell. Any more of this and both your may be deleted.

___Right! But you won't delete the posts of a blatant Jew-hater!!

Re(5): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 03:19:34 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

My dear Mr. Shelps.

In this thread I am meticulously demolishing Mr. Levine's dissimulation about Jewish identity and its intrinsic, historical racism. And I am not finished yet. There is plenty more to come if he insists upon fighting a lost cause: the cause of lying and propaganda.

It's up to him. He can concede a few things any time.

I am outlining -- in your terms, Mr. Shelps -- Jewish "hate" of the non-Jew.

Your position is that to dare to expose Jewish "hatred" is ITSELF an expression of "hatred." Think about it.

I "hate" injustice and hypocrisy, from any quarter. Don't you? Or do you love it?

Why is Jewish racism and anti-Christian bigotry sacred to you? And why am I a "hater" for asking you this necessary question?

Re(5): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 12:48:35 PM by James Jaeger

>___Right! But you won't delete the posts of a blatant Jew-hater!!

It's totally your opinion that he hates Jews. Whether he does or not, I don't see how this is relevant. Here in America people who have passion about a subject, whether hate or love, have a right to express their views.

Many people hate war. They are haters. Should we also censor them?

James Jaeger

Re(6): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:08:14 PM by George Shelps

Right! But you won't delete the posts of a blatant Jew-hater!!

It's totally your opinion that he hates Jews. Whether he does or not, I don't see how this is relevant. Here in America people who have passion about a subject, whether hate or love, have a right to express their views.
Many people hate war. They are haters. Should we also censor them?

You're willing to censor me and Levine.

__"War is hell," said General Sherman,
and hating it is normal.

Hating an ethnic group is a sin.

You should be ashamed of yourself, James.

Re(7): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:46:45 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM


Mr. Shelps. You say: "Hating an ethnic group is a sin."

Mr. Shelps, I "hate" injustice. I "hate" fraud. I "hate" hypocrisy.

As I have illustrated to you countless time, "hating" Christianity is part of Jewish religious belief. Why would this not be so? Jesus was a blasphemer to the leaders of Judaism. And he was despised.

Here's a sampling of what the Jewish Orthox group "Chabad" thinks about Jesus, CITING THE IMPORTANT JEWISH RELIGIOUS TEXT, THE TALMUD:

http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm

Who Was Jesus? Noah's Covenant Web Site[sponsored by the ultra-Orthodox Chabad Lubavitch organization] 2001

"The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of 'Jesus the
Nazarene': 1) He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).


2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh — which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
The false, rebellious message of Jesus has been thoroughly rejected by the vast majority of the Jewish people, as G-d commanded. Unfortunately, however, this same message has brought a terrible darkness upon the world; today, over 1.5 billion gentiles believe in Jesus ....

What is the true key to salvation? Those who return to the Law (the Seven Commandments for the Children of Noah, according to the eternal covenant made with Noah in Genesis 9) and who assist the Jewish people (Isaiah 60, 61,
66) will be saved and will participate in the miracles and revelations, including worshipping in the Third Temple, under the kingship of the Messiah. As described in many places, including Jeremiah 16:19-21 and Zechariah 8:20-23, all the old gentile religions of the world will disappear,
and their followers will turn to the Jews for spiritual leadership. Until then, Christians are spiritually blinded, and cannot yet understand G-d's wisdom in the Bible."

Re(8): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 28, 2004 at 02:13:27 AM by George Shelps

Shelps. You say: "Hating an ethnic group is a sin."
Mr. Shelps, I "hate" injustice. I "hate" fraud. I "hate" hypocrisy.

___Don't try to dodge the issue. You ascribe all these qualities to Jews and Judaism as a whole.

No ethnic group is free of these failings. But you seem to think the Jews are particularly prone to them...and therein lies your bigotry.


As I have illustrated to you countless time, "hating" Christianity is part of Jewish religious belief.

___This is a theological dispute. You hate a PEOPLE, not a religious doctrine.



Why would this not be so? Jesus was a blasphemer to the leaders of Judaism. And he was despised. Here's a sampling of what the Jewish Orthox group "Chabad" thinks about Jesus, CITING THE IMPORTANT JEWISH RELIGIOUS TEXT, THE TALMUD:

____The ultra-orthodox Chabad group is
a splinter group. The Talmud is often
callled a 'sea" because it contains many
different opinions. You select passages
that support your bias.

The fact that Jaeger refuses to repudiate you is something that will render FIRM ineffective. He is truly
blind to the evil message of your posts here. Levine's characterization of :evil scumbag" is right on!

Yo

Re(9): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 28, 2004 at 08:47:17 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

I ask you for the fourth time your opinion about what you would like censored from this forum, all my posts, including the following quote by Moshe Greenberg, the former head of the Biblical Studies department at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Mr. Shelps, you avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. It is an act of moral cowardice, and self-censorship, to avoid the following quote, which sooner or later you must face to understand what you defend so blindly, and vehemently:


"What emerged for me, from the study of the first chapters of the book and their antecedents was the discovery that the main stream of Jewish
thought is permeated by the genetic spiritual superiority of Jews over
Gentiles, disconcertingly reminiscent of racist notions of our time. Living in Israel for the past twenty years in a Jewish majority that is no
more sensitive to the feelings of minorities within it than Gentile
majorities are.... [with] Jews in their midst, I have come to realize the
vitality of Jewish racist notions, and I am more than ever convinced that
the hold Judaism will have on this and future generations will be gravely
impaired unless these notions are neutralized by an internal reordering of traditional values." [GREENBERG, p. 33]

Re(10): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 28, 2004 at 10:16:50 AM by George Shelps

I ask you for the fourth time your opinion about what you would like censored from this forum, all my posts, including the following quote by Moshe Greenberg, the former head of the Biblical Studies department at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Mr. Shelps, you avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. It is an act of moral cowardice, and self-censorship, to avoid the following quote, which sooner or later you must face to understand what you defend so blindly, and vehemently:

____The answer is: Greenberg is not a hated of Jews and you are. The fact that he has similar questionable opinions about Jewish 'racism" doesn't lead to put up a hate site on the internet full of vile invective, with the use of such phrases as "Jew Republic."

And i say again, Cones and Jaeger are disgracing themselves and damaging the cause of reform in the film industry by allowing you to use this board as forum for your hate-filled propaganda.


Re(11): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 28, 2004 at 07:15:01 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

YOU SAY: The fact that he has similar questionable opinions about Jewish 'racism"

RESPONSE: So you read Hebrew and you've read the traditional Jewish texts, and therefore your "opinion" is better than his, notwithstanding his "opinion" stems from his life's work?

YOU SAY: doesn't lead to put up a hate site on the internet full of vile invective, with
the use of such phrases as "Jew Republic."

RESPONSE: All readers are welcome to visit http://www.jewishtribalreview.org and decide for themselves its morality, ethics, and facts.


Re(10): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 28, 2004 at 10:11:06 AM by George Shelps

I ask you for the fourth time your opinion about what you would like censored from this forum, all my posts, including the following quote by Moshe Greenberg, the former head of the Biblical Studies department at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Mr. Shelps, you avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. It is an act of moral cowardice, and self-censorship, to avoid the following quote, which sooner or later you must face to understand what you defend so blindly, and vehemently:

____The answer is: Greenberg is not a hated of Jews and you are. The fact that he has similar questionable opinions about Jewish 'racism" doesn't lead to put up a hate site on the internet full of vile invective, with
the use of such phrases as "Jew Republic."

And i say again, Cones and Jaeger are disgracing themselves and damaging the
cause of reform in the film industry by allowing you to use this board as forum
for your hate-filled propaganda.

Re(4): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 06:59:50 PM by Mitchell Levine

For your information, here's is what conservative Ahvat Israel has to say about conversion:

Who is a Jew?

There are two ways someone can be a Jew. You can either be born a Jew, which means that your mother is Jewish, or you can convert. A convert is called a ger which literally means stranger.

Being born a Jew is pretty simple. If your mother is Jewish then so are you, if she isn’t then neither are you. It doesn’t matter whether your father is Jewish or not.

Conversion is much more complicated. Judaism does not actively encourage conversion, in fact, it discourages it. Discouraging conversion helps to filter out those lacking the proper degree of committment.

Once someone has converted to Judaism they have the full status of Jews. They are Jews in every way, and, just like any other Jew, they can never cease to be Jews.

The Torah says it is a special mitzva to love and to be kind to converts even more than to ordinary Jews. Also, it is a mitzva not to be unkind to a convert.

"You shall love the convert, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt."
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 10:19

"Do not hurt the feelings of a convert or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt."
Shemot (Exodus) 22:20

"Do not oppress a convert, you know how it feels to be a stranger because you were strangers in the land of Egypt."
Shemot (Exodus) 23:9

"When a convert comes to live in your land, do not hurt his feelings. The convert should be to you exactly like a born Jew and you shall love him like yourself, for you were strangers in Egypt - I am HaShem, your G-d."
VaYikra (Leviticus) 19:33-34

The Jewish Nation
It is important to note that a person born to a non-Jewish woman who believes everything that Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism according to the Torah, is still not Jewish. And a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship.

This has been established since the earliest days of Judaism. In the Torah, there are many references to "the strangers who dwell among you" or "righteous proselytes" or "righteous strangers." These are various classifications of non-Jews who lived among Jews, adopting some or all of the beliefs and practices of Judaism without going through the formal process of conversion and becoming Jews. Once a person has converted to Judaism, he is not referred to by any special term, he is as much a Jew as anyone born Jewish.

Re(5): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 09:43:55 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Who is as Jew? Will you believe what dissimulator Mitchell Levine claims, or a textbook for Jewish high school students published by the American Hebrew Congregations:

A 1964 textbook for Jewish high school students published by the Union of American Hebrew Congregations frames the answer to the "Who is a Jew?" query in as vague terms as possible, yet likewise lobbies for the activist continuance of this indeterminate "Jewish" entity:

"Hard to Answer. By now you have discovered that it's not easy to answer
what first seemed like a simple question: What is a Jew? As a matter of fact,there are some intelligent Jews who do not think the question can be answered all. They say that we Jews are unique; that is to say, we are different from any other group of people on earth ... [Some people feel] that, to some extent, ... we are a religious group, in some ways a nation, in some ways a race, and in some ways a nationality. And yet we are more than any one of these by itself. We are a religious group plus, a race plus, a nation plus, and a nationality plus.
But it is not easy to define what that 'plus' is in each case." [GITTELSOHN, R., 1964, p. 20]

Note that this volume accepts Jewish identity as RACIAL, as well as other things including "nationality," and "distinct from any other people on earth."

Apologia, Levine? What smokescreen route will you take? I see the sweat on your brow.

Re(6): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 10:53:31 PM by Mitchell Levine

There's no sweat here - in some ways, Jews ARE like a racial group: you're automatically considered Jewish if you're born to Jewish parents.

That doesn't mean that Jews ARE a race, because, as they also note, in other ways, they aren't - unlike a biological racial group, you can join the group WITHOUT being born into it. You can't become an Asian by means of any ceremony.

To satisfy a definition, you have to meet ALL the conditions that make it up, not just one. Otherwise, you could conclude that the Third Reich was a Marxist state because both Communism and National Socialism rejected private ownership of the means of production. Marx, Hitler, and modern historians would all vehemently disagree.

Re(7): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 11:09:14 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

1) In the face of a veritable avalanche of facts, and the prospect for much more, you start to crumble: "in some ways, Jews ARE like a racial group."

Why, thank you. That may be the first concession you've EVER made on this discussion board, but in view of the Evidence Blizzard coming your way, what option do you have but to concede the truth for once?

You also say, however, "That doesn't mean that Jews ARE a race." The Hebrew Congregations textbook, of course, accepts that Jews ARE a race.

Who we gonna believe? Mitchell Levine, or a Jewish institution?

I underscore too that, Mr. Levine, you are now in the Run-to-the-dictionary zone because some fine hairs must now be split or all is lost for you.

What's at stake in this little thread, of course, is your declared difference between a "racial group" and a "race." Now, I know you think this is your forte, to weasel with smokescreen verbiage out a place you're morally and factually trapped.

I leave the reader to judge the shakey spot at which you have been forced to retreat.

Quick! A lesson in the ENORMOUS difference between "racial group" and "race!" (Perhaps a diversionary exploration in the origin of the word "race?")

Re(8): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 00:33:21 AM by Mitchell Levine

They didn't say "Jews are a race," they said that "in some ways, Jews are a race." They also said that in other ways, they are not.

No Jewish institution anywhere defines Jews as a biological race in 2004, for reasons not the least of which include that most cultural anthropologists don't believe that races even exist, let alone that Jews meet the biological definition of a race.

The ideas of society in 1964 were much different than those of 2004. This is what is said today:

"The idea that the Jews constitute a race cannot be supported by the facts since no set of physical traits can be determined to distinguish this group from another. (Simpson and Yinger, pg. 49). Even Carlton S. Coon, proponent of racial theories, states that Jewish physical characteristics are due to social and "psychological" factors since these traits appear in nonJews as well (Simpson and Yinger, pg. 49). Simpson and Yinger cite Montagu in his rejection of the Jews as a racial group. From a paradigm centered in physical anthropology, he states there can be "no such thing as a jewish physical type, and there is not, nor was there ever, anything remotely resembling a Jewish race" (Montagu, pg. 66 as cited in Simpson and Yinger, pg. 50).

For over a century, certain writers have classified the Jews as a race by using the term "Semitic." This designation does not correspond to the anthropological literature on what constitutes a race. Indeed, the Jews have received a number of nonracial designations by anthropologists. Kroeber calls them "a social quasi-caste based... on religion..." Montagu uses similar language: "a quasi-national group" (Simpson and Yinger, pg. 50). Anthropologist Franz Boas asserts racial purity in unlikely except in cases of aboriginal isolation. He is supported by a number of writers when he points out that "there is no more a Semitic race than there is an Aryan race, since both terms define view, or they reject some element of Jewish law (Kuhn, pp. 1920)." [George Cassuto, What is Race, (2002)

'The Jews As A Race: The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race. Anthropornetric measurements of Jewish groups in many parts of the world indicate that they differ greatly from one another with respect to all the important physical characteristics." (Enyclopedia Brittanica, vol. 12, page 1054)


"A common error and persistent modern myth is the designation of the Jews as a 'race! This is scientifically fallacious, from the standpoint of both physical and historical tradition. Investigations by anthropologists have shown that Jews are by no means uniform in physical character and that they nearly always reflect the physical and mental characteristics of the people among whom they five" (Collier's Encyclopedia, vol. 13, p. 573).

"The Jewish racial myth flows from the fact that the words Hebrew, 'Israelite', Jew, Judaism, and the Jewish people have been used synonymously to suggest a historic continuity. But this is a misuse. These words refer to different groups of people with varying ways of life in different periods in history. Hebrew is a term correctly applied to the period from the beginning of Biblical history to the settling in Canaan. 'Israelite' refers correctly to the members of the twelve tribes of 'Israel'. The name Yehudi or Jew is used in the Old Testament to designate members of the tribe of Judah, descendants of the fourth son of Jacob, as well as to denote citizens of the Kingdom of Judah, particularly at the time of Jeremiah and under the Persian occupation. Centuries later, the same word came to be applied to anyone, no matter of what origin, whose religion was Judaism.

The descriptive name Judaism was never heard by the Hebrews or 'Israelites'; it appears only with Christianity. Flavius Josephus was one of the first to use the name in his recital of the war with the Romans to connote a totality of beliefs, moral commandments, religious practices and ceremonial institutions of Galilee which he believed superior to rival Hellenism. When the word Judaism was born, there was no longer a Hebrew-'Israelite' state. The people who embraced the creed of Judaism were already mixed of many races and strains; and this diversification was rapidly growing..." [Alfred Lilienthal, Jews: Race or Religion]


Pretty much the only voices claiming that Jews meet the anthropological definition of a race are Neo-Nazis: a quick search of the net reveals such ideas coming from Stormfront.org, the Posse Comitatus, the National Alliance, etc.

Re(9): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 00:56:53 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Mr. Levine. You say this: "Pretty much the only voices claiming that Jews meet the anthropological definition of a race are Neo-Nazis: a quick search of the net reveals such ideas coming from Stormfront.org, the Posse Comitatus, the National Alliance, etc."

Oh, oh! A little too quick of a search! Only "neo-Nazis?" That, of course, is a lie. Here's a really nice article (recent) and I'd be really be interested in your explanation for its Jewish Orthodox-authored (and sanctioned) contents (I'm starting to look forward to your explanations - thanks!):



http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.12.19/news4a.html

Charedi Rabbis Rush To Disavow Anti-Gentile Book, By ALLAN NADLER, [Jewish] Forward, December 19, 2003

"Leaders of the country's most prominent ultra-Orthodox yeshiva are scrambling to distance themselves from a book by one of their disciples, which argues that gentiles are "completely evil" and Jews constitute a separate, genetically superior species.
Written by Rabbi Saadya Grama — an alumnus of Beth Medrash Govoha, the renowned yeshiva in Lakewood, N.J.
— the self-published book attempts to employ classical Jewish sources
in defense of a race-based theory of Jewish supremacy.

Grama's book, published in Hebrew under the title "Romemut Yisrael Ufarashat
Hagalut," includes flowery endorsements from the most revered religious
scholars at the renowned Lakewood yeshiva, including the institution's foremost religious leader, or rosh yeshiva, Rabbi Aryeh Malkiel Kotler.

Yet, in a statement issued Tuesday
in response to queries from the Forward, Kotler rejected Grama's philosophy and said that he had not carefully reviewed the text prior to endorsing it. "We have seen the objectionable statements that allegedly appear in a sefer [book] written by Rabbi Grama, a former student at our yeshivah," wrote Kotler, whose
late grandfather Rabbi Aharon Kotler founded the Lakewood yeshiva.


"I did glance briefly at the book but did not read it carefully — which
is the general practice in providing approbations to the many books
by alumni that come across a desk like mine." In his rare statement
to the press, Kotler added: "In looking at the specific points allegedly contained in the sefer, I can certainly tell you that they are not reflective of normative Jewish thought and are certainly not the philosophy of our yeshivah. Our philosophy asserts that every human being is created in the image of the Lord and the primacy of integrity and honesty in all dealings without exception. I strongly repudiate
any assertions in the name of Judaism that do not represent and reflect
this philosophy."

The statement Tuesday struck a dramatically different chord from Kotler's earlier endorsement of the book, in which he said Grama has written "on the subjects of the Exile, the Election of Israel and her exaltation above and superiority to all of the other nations, all in accordance with the viewpoint of the Torah, based on the solid instruction he has received from his teachers."

Kotler's disavowal of the book on
Tuesday came at the end of an intense, day-long scramble during which
the Anti-Defamation League and the chancellor of Yeshiva University
condemned the book, and several ultra-Orthodox communal spokesmen tried
to convince the Forward not to report its existence.

During the course of the day, a popular bookstore in the heavily Orthodox Boro Park section of Brooklyn told the Forward that it had just pulled the book off of the tables at the author's request. The controversy over Grama's book comes as the yeshiva is close to securing $500,000 in federal funds for a Holocaust library.

Coincidentally, in his book, Grama argues that the Holocaust was both a divine punishment against the Jews for assimilation and also proof of the "true nature and face" of the non-Jewish world.

The book's title could be translated in several ways, including "The Grandeur of Israel and the Issue of Exile" and "Jewish Superiority and the Question of Exile." Grama did not
return a call seeking clarification on this point and other questions
about his polemic. In his book, Grama writes: "The difference between the people of Israel and the nations of the world is an essential one. The Jew by his source and in his very essence is
entirely good. The goy, by his source and in his very essence is completely
evil. This is not simply a matter of religious distinction, but rather
of two completely different species" ...

Among other things, Grama argues: • The differences between Jews and gentiles are not religious, historical, cultural or political. They are, rather, racial, genetic and scientifically unalterable. The one group is at its very root and by natural constitution "totally evil" while the other is "totally good."•

Jewish successes in the world are completely contingent upon the failure of all other peoples. Only when the gentiles face total catastrophe do the Jews experience good fortune. • The Jews themselves brought about their own destruction during the Holocaust, since they arrogantly endeavored to overcome their very essence, dictated by divine law, by leaving their ghettoes and trying to assimilate into Christian European society


... Grama also argues that in opposition to Zionism's advocacy
of Jewish national self-assertion and self-defense, which he views as
an imitation of "gentile ways," the Torah mandates that the Jews, while in exile, should employ such means as appeasement, deception, duplicity and even "bribery" in their dealing with gentiles, so as to avoid their wrath. Grama's full-blown racialist theories
appear to break new ground, building on a handful of hints of national and racial chauvinism occasionally found in the writings of a few earlier rabbinic figures, but combining them into a racialist doctrine with no precedent in rabbinic literature. To be sure, a minority stream exists in the rabbinic tradition — from the 11th- and 12th-century Hebrew romantic poet Yehuda Halevy to the 18th century chasidic sage Levi Yitzhak of Berditchev — which sees the differences between Jew and gentile as innate, rather than merely religious.

Perhaps the most extreme version of this view is found in the central
text of Chabad chasidism, Tanya, whose author, Rabbi Shneur Zalman of
Lyadi, Chabad's founder, maintained that Jewish and gentile souls are
fundamentally different, the former "divine" and the latter "animalistic." That viewpoint has gained ground in recent decades, particularly among charedi thinkers. Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, who is considered one of the leading ideologues of the Israeli Chabad movement, has written and
spoken widely on the superiority of Jews and was briefly imprisoned in Israel for racial incitement.Yated Ne'eman, an Orthodox weekly in upstate New York that is affiliated with one of Israel's main charedi dailies, has published essays on the question
of whether medical research can be understood to apply to Jews given
the innate physiological differences between Jews and gentiles.

Such arguments, however, have historically stood in tension with the
prevailing rabbinic view that the righteous gentiles of the world —
those who exhibit the basic ethical and moral behavior encapsulated in the "Seven Laws of Noah" — had the same access to personal salvation as fully observant Jews. This view was summed up in the 12th century by Moses Maimonides, arguably the most important Jewish sage of the past millennium, when he wrote in his code of Jewish law: "Anyone who accepts the Seven Laws of Noah and is careful to observe them is one of the righteous among the nations of the world and he has a portion in the world to come."

Re(10): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 01:03:50 AM by Mitchell Levine

That's why I said "pretty much" - you can find extremists in any group, and that's what that guy is, much the same way as Kahane and his followers.

As even the article mentions, virtually everyone but the most radical in the Jewish community rejects this bullshit and did everything possible to distance themselves from it.

That you take this to be normative Jewish thought says everything needed to be about your powers of discernment: this guy is about as typical of Jewish perspectives as the Klu Klux Klan is of Christians.

Re(11): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:03:21 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

"Extremists," Mr. Levine? This book came out of America's "most prominent ultra-Orthodox yeshiva," "the renowned yeshiva in Lakewood." A yeshiva, as you know, is a Jewish religious school. Apparently, it's the most influential in America.

The book also "includes flowery endorsements from the most revered religious scholars at the renowned Lakewood yeshiva, including the institution's foremost religious leader, or rosh yeshiva, Rabbi Aryeh Malkiel Kotler."

Now, Mr. Levine. Think about this. A number of "religious scholars" endorsed the book. And once it gets out in ENGLISH, they start saying: "Oh, uh, my endorsement was a mistake. I never read the book." Please.

If a Christian "religious school" published books that decreed Jews to be a different, sub-species of human, and a group of Christian scholars endorsed the thing, the Jewish Lobby would have the building bulldozed within a week. ALL politicians would be trying to throw the perpetrators in jail, at the behest of the Jewish Lobby. And the incident would be NATIONAL NEWS.

Now, it is true that the hero in this story is the Forward newspaper, which is a Jewish ethnic journal. They had guts and they deserve a trophy. But the ADL had no choice but to condemn the ugly little racist yeshiva, what else could they do once this got publicized?

And I note to you that this kind of story never leaves the Jewish community, as you know. I think it merits NATIONAL NEWS for all non-Jews, don't you? But, alas! There is a censorial wall in the (Judeocentric) mass media from such a story about prominent Jewish religious school that endorses the notion that non-Jews are a human sub-species.

Re(12): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:18:16 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Oh, Mr. Levine. By the way. I quote for you another portion of interest from this article:

"Perhaps the most extreme version of this view is found in the central
text of Chabad chasidism, Tanya, whose author, Rabbi Shneur Zalman of
Lyadi, Chabad's founder, maintained that Jewish and gentile souls are
fundamentally different, the former "divine" and the latter "animalistic." That viewpoint has gained ground in recent decades, particularly among charedi thinkers. Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, who is considered one of the leading ideologues of the Israeli Chabad movement, has written and
spoken widely on the superiority of Jews and was briefly imprisoned in Israel for racial incitement.Yated Ne'eman, an Orthodox weekly in upstate New York that is affiliated with one of Israel's main charedi dailies, has published essays on the question
of whether medical research can be understood to apply to Jews given
the innate physiological differences between Jews and gentiles."

Now, here we can dovetail into film a bit. You know Chabad, Mr. Levine. It is not obscure. It is not a fringe group. It is everywhere, and has a strong presence in HOLLYWOOD. Stupid Jon Voight, among other Hollywood stars, have been an ACTIVIST in promoting this racist group, and their yearly tele-thon to raise money for their programs.

The chief rabbi of Russia, Berel Lazar, is a Chabad Lubavitcher.

Highly recommended reading about racist Chabad is Stephen Bloom's book, POSTVILLE. Bloom is Jewish, and his book about the racist Chabads who have taken over Postville, Iowa, will stand your hair on end.

Bloom summarizes his book like this:

"Many of the Hasidim I had encountered in Postville pretended to be holy but their actions displayed bigotry and racism of the worst degree. The book explored taboo topics such as bargaining, poor hygiene, atrocious manners, disrepair of homes, Jewish elitism, sexism, crime and prejudice directed at gentiles."

Mr. Levine. Your response to this post, as always, is more than welcome.

Chabad in Hollywood Hills
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 02:34:38 PM by James Jaeger

Two articles below. One dated June 2003 and a very recent one March of 2004.


City refuses Chabad's request to remain in Hollywood Hills
Sun-Sentinel.com/June 6, 2003
By John Holland

Hollywood -- As the clock inched toward 2 a.m. and debate dragged on over what to do with an Orthodox Jewish sect that worships in two small homes, city commissioners seemed weary of what they called the most divisive issue in Hollywood history.

After two years of hearings, promises and testimony, the facts remained clear, even if a solution proved no easier Thursday morning than it ever did. The Chabad Lubavitch wanted to worship in the middle of a residential neighborhood, neighbors wanted to push them out and everybody said the law -- or their version of it -- was on their side.

Then a young congregant pushed the argument away from law and toward religion in a way no one had done, appealing to the commission's Jewish members to ignore legal advice and vote with their hearts.

"I think the Jewish people on this board have to stand up ... you're a Jew, you have to fight for who you are,'' said Zalman Korf, younger brother of the congregation's rabbi.

The plea failed, and garnered scorn from some in the audience and on the commission. About 3:30 a.m., commissioners rejected the Chabad's bid to keep holding services in two small Hollywood Hills homes, giving neighbors the victory and setting the stage for a court appeal that will pit religious freedom against the city's right to decide its own zoning laws.

"I'm sorry I'm going to have to vote against you, but I do,'' Commissioner Beam Furr said, casting what amounted to the deciding vote against the group's application for a special permit to turn two small homes in Hollywood Hills into a permanent house of worship.

The final vote was 5-2, with Mayor Mara Giulianti and Commissioners Furr, Peter Bober, Sal Oliveri and Cathy Anderson voting against the Chabad, although Anderson was consistently on the Chabad's side and switched only after the results were assured to help unify the commission.

The Chabad's leaders promised a quick appeal, and city officials said they would give the group time to find a new home and wouldn't rush to enforce the ruling. Rabbi Joseph Korf, Zalman's brother, said commissioners caved to political pressure and didn't follow the law.

"I feel very let down by the vote, but I can't say that I'm surprised,'' Korf said. "It's very troubling, because we have a lot of elderly members who just want to be able to walk to temple and worship. Now they aren't going to be able to do that.''

The Chabad practice a traditional form of Judaism that includes prohibitions against driving on the Sabbath, meaning most members must live within walking distance of their temple. They bought the properties at 2215 and 2221 N. 46th Ave., in 2000 with the intention of creating a central house of worship, but hid their intentions from the city early on, according to testimony. The Chabad moved to the neighborhood from a nearby strip mall on Sheridan Street.

No issue has ever divided the commission or the city as deeply, commissioners said. The Chabad labeled many of their critics, particularly Oliveri, as intolerant or even anti-Semitic. Oliveri, long an advocate for keeping neighborhoods exclusively for single-family homes, argued the issue was about zoning and planning, not religion.

"It's almost common sense and reasonable that the Chabad will never fit in Hollywood Hills,'' Oliveri said.

Some commissioners, particularly Furr and the mayor, tried to find a middle ground.

Furr, clearly torn between his admiration for the Chabad and his belief that it didn't come close to meeting city planning codes, said he couldn't justify letting members worship in a synagogue surrounded by neighbors who complained about the noise, traffic and garbage the congregation generated.

Giulianti also was sympathetic toward the congregation, but bristled at suggestions by some that the vote reflected a tone of anti-Semitism in the city.

"I've been elected seven times and I'm Jewish and they know I'm Jewish,'' Giulianti said to applause.

From the beginning, city officials have argued that the Chabad, with at least 60 active members, was too large for the small parcel with two homes.

The Chabad also has been circumspect about the total membership, with one senior administrator testifying Thursday morning that there were fewer than 200 total members from around the country. He later admitted he didn't include women and children in his total, putting the actual figure at well over 400 members.

Nearby residents said they've counted well over 100 residents packed onto the tiny property during important Holy days. City officials agreed that has been a problem.

"It's like trying to put 12 pounds in a 10 pound bag; it's just too big for a single-family home,'' Planning Director Jaye Epstein said. "All along we've felt this is a planning issue ... nothing more.''

The nine-hour hearing, which started at 6:30 p.m Wednesday, was actually among the shortest on the subject and had little of the vitriol of previous meetings. About 125 people attended the hearing -- about half of the other gatherings -- and the tone was passionate but more respectful than before.

Throughout the hearing, lawyers and residents focused on state and federal laws designed to strike a balance between religious freedom and a city's right to ensure, orderly, consistent zoning laws.

Under federal law, the city can keep a house of worship out of a neighborhood if they don't create a "substantial burden,'' on the congregation. The city argues that asking the Chabad to move would create only a small burden. Giulianti emphasized that the Chabad moved to the homes on 46th Avenue voluntarily, proof that moving is not a hardship, she said.

Source: http://www.rickross.com/reference/lubavitch/lubavitch19.html



N.America

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Feds investigating if Hollywood discriminated against Jewish sect"

by John Holland ("Sun-Sentinel," March 3, 2004)

Justice Department lawyers are questioning past and current Hollywood employees, reviewing videotapes of commission meetings and examining building code records to determine whether the city discriminated against an Orthodox Jewish sect.

Federal investigators plan to meet with top city officials and employees on March 24 to discuss the city commission's decision to stop the Chabad Lubavitch from worshiping in a residential neighborhood. They are focusing on whether the city treated the Chabad differently from other religious groups operating in single-family neighborhoods, particularly Rosa Lopez, who has turned her home into a shrine to the Virgin Mary without any interference from the city.

The sides have been fighting since 2000, when the sect turned two private homes on 46th Street into a single house of worship. The city said the conversion violated zoning laws, and neighbors complained worshipers are noisy, leave garbage in the area and create a nuisance.

On Oct. 17 the city ordered the Chabad to stop all services. Three days later, the Justice Department's civil rights division began investigating the case.

City attorney Dan Abbott already has given four boxes of records and tapes to the Justice Department, including a list of all zoning violations issued over the past several years, records show.

The Chabad contends that City Commissioner Sal Oliveri harassed them by ordering the city's code enforcement office to write hundreds of unmerited violations. Oliveri has been their harshest critic and led the city's charge to force them out.

The city already has spent about $40,000 in legal fees on the case.

On Tuesday, a lawyer for the Chabad said several large law firms are preparing to file a "significant'' lawsuit against the city.

"We already have a draft and the discussions are very far along. We're just allowing the Justice Department to do its work or it would probably already be filed,'' said Franklin Zemel of Broad and Cassell.

In 2000, Congress passed the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, or RLUIPA, designed to give religious groups power to fight local zoning ordinances. While cities can regulate locations for houses of worship, the restrictions must be limited and applied equally to all religions.

Under RLUIPA, the federal government can sue the city if it finds discrimination.

"If we do get sued under some kind of equal protection provision, the city would have a number of very solid defenses,'' Abbott said. One videotape under federal review is from a Sept. 12, 2001, meeting in which the commission gave the Chabad a temporary extension and raised questions of preferential treatment for Lopez, who says she receives monthly visits and messages from the Virgin Mary.

Lopez has been operating for 10 years without a permit, once drawing thousands to her 1301 N. 66th Ave. home, where she still greets about 100 worshipers on the 13th of every month.

On the videotape, Oliveri said Lopez should be exempt from zoning because her services are "a miracle'' to true believers and the venue can not be changed since the Virgin Mary visits that particular home.

"If you people know anything about the Catholic religion, that's called a vision,'' Oliveri said at a packed meeting. "To Christians and Catholics, that's considered a miracle. That's not establishing a house of worship. That is a miracle.''

He later acknowledged that Lopez's services, which once grew so large that she put up portable toilets and needed police officers to direct traffic, had created a "disturbance.''

"The spiritual benefit that may be achieved by the people going there once a month far outweighs any inconvenience,'' Oliveri said at the meeting, drawing jeers from Chabad supporters and Mayor Mara Giulianti.

Giulianti pounced on what she called unequal treatment, and said it could cause problems for the city in the future.

Source: http://www.wwrn.org/parse.php?idd=9788&c=129

Re(4): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 05:55:50 PM by Mitchell Levine

I have carefully read both your posts and Mr. Jenk's posts and it seems to me that basically being Jewish is a matter of race. It also seems to me that people are allowed to "convert" to Judaism so it looks less racist, more politically correct in today's world.

- Sorry, Jim, but that's provably false: the requirements for conversion are discussed directly in the Torah, and have been part of the religion for three thousand years. The Bible is quite clear: anyone that wants to follow the laws of Yaweh and circumsize is welcome to be a Jew. It has been that way at all times, and is not a modern P.C. phenomenon.

If you wanted to convert 300 years ago, you could have done it just as easily as today. Jews by Choice have, and always have had, exactly the same rights as any other Jew, including being buried in Jewish cemetaries, being called to read from the Torah at worship services, having marriage services performed (without regard to the religion of their spouse) in synagogues, Bar or Bat Mitzvahs for their children, and, at this time, citizenship in Israel.

In fact, the Talmud specifically states that anyone who converts to Judaism is automatically reconfigured to possess a "Jewish soul."In other words, the most putatively innate Jewish characteristics are not biologically determinate, and in-group membership is not denied anyone, and that's the way it's always been.

Also, according to the Zohar, a pious convert is much more welcome to the Jewish community than a non-practicing birth member.

I'm much better qualified than either of you to discuss this, because my birth mother is not Jewish, and I am completely welcome in the Jewish community, despite the fact that by the principle of matrilinear succession, I'm not even technically Jewish. No one has ever mistreated me, nor ever made me feel any less Jewish than anyone else, and I live in New York, and attended a Jewish summer camp every year.

Your argument is just as ridiculous as the claim that Christians are a race, despite the fact that they belong to every racial group and have no racial requirement, and that they only accept converts to look "politically correct," would be.

You can find genetic similarities among Irish Catholics, and the Church teaches that only its member can go to heaven, so using your reasoning, the Catholic Church, and therefore all Christians, is racist.

Do you see how bogus that is? The fact that some people in the Cohen line share a genetic marker is only so because a surname is a natural extension of a family line, and genes are passed through families. You could not establish an anonymous donor as Jewish with a blood test, unless they happened to fall in that specific family line, which probably 98% of all Jews do not.

Abraham, the very first Jew, himself converted, and was not racially different than anyone else from his area, including the Arabs, which is why Jews and Arabs have extremely similar genetic composition.

Most American Jews, for example, are not genetically related to the first Jews in Palestine at all, and are related to people that converted in the Polish province of Khazaria.

Thus, your argument is completely without foundation, and is no different than your continuing to maintain that "goyim" means "cattle," despite the overwhelming evidence otherwise.

If you'd like, I'll give you a hundred citations from anthropologists, all of whom agree with me, and none with you. When you can find one academic citation that establishes Jew as a racial group, then you'll have a sound argument. At this time, you don't.

- would appreciate if you would stop using foul language to address Mr. Jenks, such as an "Evil Scumbag," "stupid asshole," "bigot," "lying asshole." This goes for George Shelps as well. Any more of this and both your may be deleted.

- Just as soon as Jenks stops his use of such language directed at me, as his posts are filled with exactly that.

It's rather a double standard for you to allow him to do so, and then tell me I've done something wrong by responding in kind.

Name-Calling
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 03:21:15 PM by James Jaeger

>If you'd like, I'll give you a hundred citations from anthropologists, all of whom agree with me, and none with you.

Maybe you’re right, I don't know if being Jewish is racial or religious or other. I have asked this question to almost every Jewish person I encounter and it seems they all give me a different answer. It seems this is a very heated subject. It's now seeming to me that one is Jewish if they are accepted by other Jews AS a Jew. This makes it almost a club. Thus you are either in the Jewish Club, or you are not. I guess given this reasoning, there must be people who were born to a Jewish mother and who are rejected by other Jews, thus they are not in the Club and thus not Jewish.

It would seem to me that if one were born to a Jewish mother and they rejected Judaism, they should be fully considered a Gentile, or non-Jew. In otherwords, if one can convert to being a Jew, then one should be able to convert to being a non-Jew. No? Or is this not the case? If one cannot convert to being a non-Jew, then I would say the racial aspect is the predominant. Can you give me any references of people who have converted to non-Jewish status and who are now not considered to be Jewish in any way?

>- Just as soon as Jenks stops his use of such language directed at me, as his posts are filled with exactly that.

No you need to stop right now. And if you cite a specific use of "such language" directed at you by Jenks, I will be glad to ask him to stop that as well.

>It's rather a double standard for you to allow him to do so, and then tell me I've done something wrong by responding in kind.

No, I hereby ask Mr. Jenks to also refrain from this sort of language as well. I ask you both to. I also ask anyone and everyone else as well. This includes myself. I know this can be difficult as often times one gets overly passionate, but out of respect for those who may be reading these posts, I think we need to keep the name calling and base language out of the discussion. Fair enough?

James Jaeger

P.S. I PERSONALLY am not offended by such language and feel that it's silly to censor people for ANY word or sound that comes out of a human being. Swear words help understand the emotional state of a writer and thus add bandwidth to the communication. But we live in a frail society, one that can barely tolerate rich communication anyway. The World Wide Web is changing this thanks to Timothy Berners Lee.

Re(5): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 10:55:08 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Back on track, Mr. Levine -- Racism and Jewish identity:

Let's turn to Moshe Greenberg for the beginning of an answer to all this, a scholar described by the periodical Conservative Judaism as "one of the leading scholars of Hebrew scripture in the world," formerly the Chair of the Department of Bible Studies at Hebrew University in Israel. As a young man, Greenberg's first introduction to the racist foundation of Jewish religious literature was in Sefer Hatanya, the central works of Habad hasidim [one of today's ultra-Orthodox groups, also spelled "Chabad"]. Greenberg noted in 1996 that

"What emerged for me, from the study of the first chapters of the book and their antecedents was the discovery that the main stream of Jewish
thought is permeated by the genetic spiritual superiority of Jews over
Gentiles, disconcertingly reminiscent of racist notions of our time. Living in Israel for the past twenty years in a Jewish majority that is no
more sensitive to the feelings of minorities within it than Gentile
majorities are.... [with] Jews in their midst, I have come to realize the
vitality of Jewish racist notions, and I am more than ever convinced that
the hold Judaism will have on this and future generations will be gravely
impaired unless these notions are neutralized by an internal reordering of
traditional values." [GREENBERG, p. 33]

Such traditional values may be found in the memoirs of Yossi Klein Halevi (an American Jew who eventually moved to Israel) and what he was taught as a youth at Brooklyn's Talmudic Academy:

"Jews and goyim [non-Jews] were locked in eternal struggle. For now the
goyim prevailed. But when the Messiah came, we would triumph. Twenty
goyim would cling to each thread of our prayer shawls, pleading to serve
us as protection against divine judgment." [HALEVI, p. 68]

One Talmudic Academy teacher taught that "Jews were the center of the world ... Anything extraneous to Jews was of no real interest to us, or, by implication, God himself." [HALEVI, p. 68]


Levine! Special Delivery!
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 00:37:26 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Mr. Levine, dear Sir. Oh, Wise One.
This is REALLY a great citation by Moshe Greenberg, a very learned Jewish scholar (kind of a HEAVYWEIGHT), and it's so SWELL I'll post it again because I would REALLY like your insightful feedback on it:


Let's turn to Moshe Greenberg for the beginning of an answer to all this, a scholar described by the periodical Conservative Judaism as "one of the leading scholars of Hebrew scripture in the world," formerly the Chair of the Department of Bible Studies at Hebrew University in Israel. As a young man, Greenberg's first introduction to the racist foundation of Jewish religious literature was in Sefer Hatanya, the central works of Habad hasidim [one of today's ultra-Orthodox groups, also spelled "Chabad"]. Greenberg noted in 1996 that

"What emerged for me, from the study of the first chapters of the book and their antecedents was the discovery that the main stream of Jewish
thought is permeated by the genetic spiritual superiority of Jews over
Gentiles, disconcertingly reminiscent of racist notions of our time. Living in Israel for the past twenty years in a Jewish majority that is no
more sensitive to the feelings of minorities within it than Gentile
majorities are.... [with] Jews in their midst, I have come to realize the
vitality of Jewish racist notions, and I am more than ever convinced that
the hold Judaism will have on this and future generations will be gravely
impaired unless these notions are neutralized by an internal reordering of traditional values." [GREENBERG, p. 33]

Re(1): Levine! Special Delivery!
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 01:13:28 AM by Mitchell Levine

That's why the Chabad's are the most right-wing of Orthodox Jews, and make up approximately 2% of the Jewish community.

Ultra-right-wing Christians can be just as "racist," but that doesn't mean Christianity is racist. What's mistaken here is the interpretation given of scriptures, not their message themselves.

The one constant of ALL types of fundamentalisms is general intolerance. That's as true for the most fundamentalist of Jews as it is any other fundamentalist group.

Re(2): Levine! Special Delivery!
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:24:51 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Mr. Levine, your lies and dissimulation are being lined up, one by one, and the research is already done to morally and factually dismiss your fraud.

The Chabad organization is not obscure. As you know:


http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/10/19/Books/Books.36571.html

A Messianism Some Call Heresy, Jerusalem Post, October 19, 2001

"Chabad is a potent force: 2,600 institutions around the world, large numbers of English-speaking rabbis, control of most of Judaism in Italy as well as the chief rabbinate of Russia (its Russia budget alone is $20 million a year). It is an organization with immense world-wide financial resources ... In fact, Chabad is a movement of monumental importance. Observant Jews are profoundly dependent on its emissaries all over the world, it plays a major role in kosher food
preparation and supervision worldwide, its rabbis dominate or are poised
to dominate Jewish communities in a startling number of countries."

Re(3): Levine! Special Delivery!
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:32:54 AM by MOSHE GOYIM

By the way, Mr. Levine, professor Greenberg is not just talking about Chabad. Read closely the quote; he's talking about the "main stream of Jewish thought."

"What emerged for me, from the study of the first chapters of the book and their antecedents was the discovery that the main stream of Jewish
thought is permeated by the genetic spiritual superiority of Jews over
Gentiles, disconcertingly reminiscent of racist notions of our time. Living in Israel for the past twenty years in a Jewish majority that is no
more sensitive to the feelings of minorities within it than Gentile
majorities are.... [with] Jews in their midst, I have come to realize the
vitality of Jewish racist notions, and I am more than ever convinced that
the hold Judaism will have on this and future generations will be gravely
impaired unless these notions are neutralized by an internal reordering of traditional values." [GREENBERG, p. 33]


Here is the full citation for this quote. Mr. Levine. Look at the title:

Greenberg, Moshe. A Problematic Heritage: The Attitude Toward the Gentile in the Jewish Tradition: An Israeli Perspective. Conservative
Judaism, v. XLVIII, no. 2, Winter 1996, p. 23-35

Your keen response about this "anecdotal" information is more than welcome. As always.

Re(5): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 09:10:59 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

You know, I haven't got the time to spend the rest of my life refuting every absurdity of Mr. Levine. As I have time, I'll drop a few zingers on him.

For the moment, per Levine's avalanche of propaganda about "converts to Judaism," take a look at this 1980s news item about "converts to Judaism" who wanted to live in Israel:

For those who do successfully become
converts under strict Orthodox observance in Israel, in 1985 the Israeli Interior Ministry afforded them still another slap in the face, highlighting their status as "second-class Jews." All converts to Judaism were henceforth to have their Israeli identity cards stamped with "convert" next to the word Jew. [JEWISH WEEK, 7-4-86, p. 3]

Neat trick. You see, there's the BORN Jew and the non-born Jew, part of the "Jewish" citizen's discriminatory identity package.

No, no. Bite your tongue. Nothing racist about it.

Re(6): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 11:21:54 PM by Mitchell Levine

That's because, at that time, numerous non-Jews - Jews by neither birth nor conversion - began faking credentials to get Israeli citizenship, including most of the Russian Mafia, which caused many of the internal problems like the Ecstacy trade and so on. Once people figured out they could get out of the collapsing Soviet Union by fabricating credentials as Jews, it became a big movement.

Because of that historical phenomenon, there are actually antisemitic, swastika-wearing skinhead groups preaching straight out of Mein Kampf in the middle of Tel Aviv, defacing Jewish cemetaries, and a lot more.

The point of the legislation was to try to deal with that problem, not that the Israelis like "born Jews" any more than converts.

Israel is a country the size of Rhode Island that has to theoretically offer citizenship to every actual Jew, both by birth and conversion, in the world. For them to be able to that, they have to take some reasonable steps to make sure that their population isn't artifcially inflated by people looking to take advantage.

Especially if there's ever going to be a peaceful, equitable resolution to the Occupation, and the establishment of a prosperous, secure state for the Palestinians. Every time a non-Jew fakes a Russian birth registration listing their nationality as "Jewish," that's just more motivation for the creation of settlements in the Hebron. They do it a lot.

It may sound harsh to American ears, but there WAS a legitimate reason for that policy.

Re(7): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 00:09:22 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

YOU SAY: That's because, at that time, numerous non-Jews - Jews by neither birth nor conversion - began faking credentials to get Israeli citizenship,

RESPONSE: That's a silly idea, Levine, conjured out of air. You can do better than that. If what you say were true, why would anyone want to "fake" a SECOND CLASS citizenship card that guaranteed discrimination? Secondly, what does it all say (as you frame it here) about the Israeli state that this exclusionary practice exists? On TWO LEVELS: first between Jews and non-Jews, and then between BORN Jews and "converts to Judaism." Pretty sordid, and there's layers of it, like an onion.

LEVINE: including most of the Russian Mafia,

RESPONSE: The "Russian" mafia is predominately Jewish. We have tons of citations about it. Read Jewish journalist Robert Friedman's book, The Red Mafiya. No need, sir, to blame Gentiles for expressly Jewish crimes.

LEVINE: which caused many of the internal problems like the Ecstacy trade and so on.

RESPONSE: The state of Israel is the world's center for the trade in Ecstasy. We have many online links to the issue, complete with Israeli Jewish names of the kingpins who have been busted.

Merely ONE snippet of the ecstasy story:

A news item in October 1999 noted the breakup of an international ring specializing in the illegal drug "ecstasy." Israeli police announced that 49 suspects around the world had been detained; 24 were Israelis, most of the others were ultra-Orthodox Jewish Americans.
[KILEY, S.] The Detroit Free Press noted that "ultra-Orthodox
Jews served as couriers for a major international drug ring that operated
in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Israel, and the United States ... The
syndicate, led by two Israelis living in Europe, was one of the world's largest producers of the synthetic drug ecstasy." [DET FR PRESS, 10-13-99, p.
59] The ring circulated tons of drugs, including cocaine and heroin. [DUDKEVITCH, M., p. 1] A few months earlier, "seven men were indicted in Brooklyn for allegedly operating an international drug ring that relied on Hasidic couriers dressed in black hats, dark suits, and side curls." [HAYS, T., 7-23-99, p. A8] The key six Israelis arrested in this Ecstasy ring included Igal Malka, Yariv Azulay, Oshri Ganchrski, Eyal Levy, Robert Levy, and Oshri Amar. They were caught with 300,000 tablets on-hand, worth an estimated $7.5 million; 100,000 pills a week were funneled by the gang into the New York metropolitan area. [HENRY, M., 2-25-2000, p. A1]


LEVINE: Once people figured out they could get out of the collapsing Soviet Union by fabricating credentials as Jews, it became a big movement.

RESPONSE: This is a lie, spread by the Jewish Lobby. The heart of the "Russian" mafia in America is well-known and well-documented. It is Brighton Beach, a Russian Jewish enclave near New York City. Again, just for a tune-up, read Robert Friedman's THE RED MAFIYA.

A 1996 investigation (co-sponsored by the New York State Organized Crime Task Force, the New York State Commission of
Investigation, and the New Jersey Commission of Investigation) dismissed popular myths that Russian officials had intentionally implanted criminals into the Jewish immigration rush to America, that the KGB had interests in sowing Jewish migration with non-Jewish Soviet criminals, or that "members of organized
crime groups in Odessa, Ukraine, had smuggled themselves out of the country
by assuming the identities of Soviet-Jews who were either dead or in jail."

As the report noted: "For several reasons, all of these explanations proved inadequate ... The actual number of known Russian-emigre criminals who entered the United States in the 1970s and 1980s, either with or without the
consent of Soviet officials, was relatively small and, in general, their
crimes have been very localized.... History has shown that the growth
of organized crime in any community is invariably linked to the recent
migration into that community by ethnic
groups having weak ties to the dominant political culture." [NEW YORK
ORGANIZED CRIME TASK FORCE, 1996, p. 183]

LEVINE: Because of that historical phenomenon, there are actually antisemitic, swastika-wearing skinhead groups preaching straight out of Mein Kampf in the middle of Tel Aviv, defacing Jewish cemetaries, and a lot more.

RESPONSE: The people you refer to are largely half-Jews like yourself (father Jewish, mother not) who are stuck in Israel, not considered Jewish by Jewish Orthodoxy, and are treated like shit, i.e., in a racist Jewish manner. Saying there are Adolf Hitlers walking around in the heart of Israel are the words of someone who needs psychiatric help. Or better yet, a deep breath and an honest introspection. What's the point in your clinging to Jewish fantasy, Mr. Levine?

LEVINE: The point of the legislation was to try to deal with that problem, not that the Israelis like "born Jews" any more than converts.

RESPONSE: Yours is complete and total fabrication. You are in 100% denial that JEWS are responsible for an ounce of injustice in the entire universe. And you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading total hasbara (propaganda).

All you state here is complete fantasy. We've got the citations, bub, at http://www.jewishtribalreview.org

LEVINE: Israel is a country the size of Rhode Island that has to theoretically offer citizenship to every actual Jew, both by birth and conversion, in the world.

RESPONSE: i.e., a center for Jewish racism and/or bigotry.

LEVINE: For them to be able to that, they have to take some reasonable steps to make sure that their population isn't artifcially inflated by people looking to take advantage.

RESPONSE: Switch this kind of talk about making sure no non-Jews sneak into Israel, and apply it to Nazi Germany in the 1940s and you have an approximate parallel.

The foundation is apartheid: a country for Jews, or a country for Aryans, take your pick.

LEVINE: Especially if there's ever going to be a peaceful, equitable resolution to the Occupation, and the establishment of a prosperous, secure state for the Palestinians.

RESPONSE: There never will be peace as long as Jews slaughter Palestinians on sight without trial.

LEVINE: Every time a non-Jew fakes a Russian birth registration listing their nationality as "Jewish," that's just more motivation for the creation of settlements in the Hebron. They do it a lot.

RESPOND: Here you are defending Jewish bigotry, Jewish racism, Jewish apartheid, and you don't even care. You're blind. All you care about is JEWS. It is completely naturalized in you as a form of self-fulfilling Judeocentric aggrandizement.

LEVINE: It may sound harsh to American ears, but there WAS a legitimate reason for that policy.

RESPONSE: All you do is apologetics, Mr. Levine. You haven't the moral courage to swallow an ounce of blame for ANYTHING in all of Jewish history. This TOO is emblematic of modern Jewish identity.

The true reason for "that policy" of discrimination between Jews and non-Jews is that BORN Jews are truly the KLAN, and the "converts" are at a lower tier. BORN allegiance to the Klan can be trusted more than "convert" allegiance. It's quite like Mossad's solicitation of sayanim (spies/workers on behalf of Israel) with Jewish citizens of other countries throughout the world. Full, father-mother parent Jews are the spies of choice, because their allegiance to the clan is so much deeper. (Read Victor Ostrovsky's book about this -- his years in the Mossad).

Cheers.

Re(8): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 01:37:25 AM by Mitchell Levine

hat's a silly idea, Levine, conjured out of air. You can do better than that. If what you say were true, why would anyone want to "fake" a SECOND CLASS citizenship card that guaranteed discrimination? Secondly, what does it all say (as you frame it here) about the Israeli state that this exclusionary practice exists? On TWO LEVELS: first between Jews and non-Jews, and then between BORN Jews and "converts to Judaism." Pretty sordid, and there's layers of it, like an onion.

- It's not "silly" at all: Judaism makes no distinction between "converts" and born Jews - the Torah specifically states that it's a greater blessing to treat the convert well than the Jew by Birth. It also states that a Jew by conversion can no more leave Judaism than a Jew by birth, except by excommunication, which hasn't happened as far as we know since Spinoza's day.

There's no second-class citizenship: absolutely no distinction is drawn between the two, legally or otherwise. A convert to Judaism can do anything that a Jew by birth can, including obtain full citizenship in Israel through the Right to Return, and study for the Rabbinate.

Because no blood or genetic test can distinguish between Jews and non-Jews, and Jews from across the world look entirely different, there's not even any reason to tell people you're a convert, if you don't wish to.

For people that couldn't get fake birth credentials legitimized by their governments, it's much easier to get bogus conversion records - it happens all the time, as the existence of Neo-Nazi skinhead groups promoting antisemitism with Israel itself indicates.

Because there's nothing that can be done about people fabricating birth credentials, since the governments of those countries are willing to cooperate, conversion credentials - which can be more easily validated, and faked - are scrutinized more thoroughly.

If the Isarelis wanted to stigmatize converts, they didn't have to wait 40 years to do it. The world was far more willing in '48 to tolerate racial and religious discrimination, and there was no shortage of refugee Jews by birth to make up their demographics. At that time, the Israelis believed the "absorpative capacity" of the land was only around 2 million.

Re(9): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 11:18:14 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

LEVINE: It's not "silly" at all: Judaism makes no distinction between "converts" and born Jews

RESPONSE: I have already proved evidence to you that in 1985 converts to Judaism had that fact stamped on their national ID card. You acknowledge this as true, and you attempt to explain it away with allusions to the "Russian" mafia that has SNEAKED INTO racist Israel and Nazi skinheads who are marching in Tel Aviv. Please. You are completely off the grid. You might as well blame OFFICIAL Jewish/Israeli convert discrimination on the Wicked Witch of the West. Your efforts at hasbara (Hebrew for propaganda) are getting desperate. And laughable.

Re(2): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 12:27:53 PM by George Shelps

I I have responded EXPRESSLY to Levine's comment (which is NOT censored) that "Judaism is not racism."
Why should Levine always get a free pass?

___OK, so now you've responded.

But it's off-topic to go any further.

YYou simply want to use this forum to
express your hatred of the Jews.

I exhort John Cones to cancel your posts.

Re(3): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 09:55:51 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Mr. Shelps, what do you think of Ms. Seidman's condemnation of your religion (via Mel Gibson's The Passion) and why, in your pro-Jewish, pro-Israel favoritism, do you endorse her view?


http://www.etherzone.com/2004/sans022704.shtml

THE NEW TESTAMENT A NASTY LITTLE DOCUMENT, By: Joe Sansone, Ether Zone, February 27, 2004

‘The Passion of the Christ’, Mel Gibson’s depiction of the last twelve
hours of Jesus has finally hit theatres after months of what seem to be nothing more than bigoted attacks. Detractors have called the movie anti-Semitic and have attempted to smear Mr. Gibson and
even his religion in a tasteless campaign of hate. The movie has a narrow, but extremely intense focus, capturing the pain and suffering
of Jesus during torture and crucifixion. It was clearly the intent of Gibson to convey the depth of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice. It is true that
the film shows the Jewish high priest as the driving force behind Christ’s crucifixion, but other members of the Pharisees defended Jesus. The Romans
are also portrayed in a similar light, some sympathizing with Christ and
others lusting for his blood. The movie highlights the worst of Jews,
and the best of Jews, the worst of humanity, and the best of humanity


... After viewing the film it seems that outside of Paranoia, there are
two main reasons why some radical Jews have tried to condemn it as being anti-Semitic.

1) They hate Christians and the idea of Jesus being portrayed as the Messiah. Gibson’s portrayal of Christ is not simply as a philosophical leader. The title itself ‘The Passion of the Christ’ probably irks some beyond belief.

In an article called the Most contentious story ever told Naomi Seidman, the director of the Center for Jewish Studies at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, is quoted as saying, "This movie is a representation of the New Testament, which is a nasty little document, it's hard for Jews to read.''

Clearly, some people hate Jesus Christ. Quite frankly, this is the attitude
that the high priest had in the film and is extremely hypocritical since Seidman is complaining of anti-Semitism while acting anti-Christian.

2) A desire to stay in business. In that same article, Abraham Foxman,
the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, after sneaking into
a screening of the film is quoted as saying the film was "unambiguous"
and a "poisonous accusation that the Jews were responsible for the killing
of Jesus.''

Jews represent less than three percent of the American population and to their credit are overrepresented in most professional fields in America. Clearly anti-Semitism is not running rampant in the United States. Like many in the field of politics, it would seem that the ADL needs a reason to exist and therefore is forced to go to the extreme of creating fear that the possibility of anti-Semitism may arise as a result of a movie. A snapshot of the biblical history of Christ, Gibson’s film is certainly an artistic interpretation of the New Testament, it is however an accurate one as well. Those that attack the film as being anti-Semitic are essentially accusing Christianity of being anti-Semitic, and in fact are being anti-Christian. This is the type of behavior that will fuel anti-Semitism, not Gibson’s movie."

Re(4): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 02:22:38 AM by Mitchell Levine

Clearly, some people hate Jesus Christ.

- To suggest that this represents the feelings of most Jews, would also suggest that they consider Jesus particularly important, which they don't - Jesus isn't a factor in the Jewish religion. To Jews, it's pretty irrational to hate someone they never met that lived 2,000 years ago.

It's similar to the line of reasoning which led to the conclusion that Jews desecrate hosts - as if Jews would ever give any consideration to the doctrine of transsubstantiation.

In an article called the Most contentious story ever told Naomi Seidman, the director of the Center for Jewish Studies at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, is quoted as saying, "This movie is a representation of the New Testament, which is a nasty little document, it's hard for Jews to read.''

Clearly, some people hate Jesus Christ. Quite frankly, this is the attitude
that the high priest had in the film and is extremely hypocritical since Seidman is complaining of anti-Semitism while acting anti-Christian.

- In some of its antisemitic aspects, it IS nasty; e.g. "The devil is your father," and so on. Most Jews understand that Christianity is not to be judged entirely on that basis, becaused there were historical factors in place, any more than they wish to be judged on the fact that the Old Testament claims all Arabs are descended from the illegitimate child of Sarah's handmaiden. Ancient scriptures reflect the thinking of ancient people, which is different than that of people today.

If Jews believed that the entirety of the Gospels were nasty, however, then that would also include the philosophical teachings for which Jesus is rightly praised as a prophet and important reformer in the Jewish community by virtually one hundred percent of the Jews I personally know, including both myself and my family.

Gibson’s film is certainly an artistic interpretation of the New Testament, it is however an accurate one as well. Those that attack the film as being anti-Semitic are essentially accusing Christianity of being anti-Semitic, and in fact are being anti-Christian. This is the type of behavior that will fuel anti-Semitism, not Gibson’s movie."

- If it were an "accurate portrayal" of the New Testament then it would change nothing arbitrarily, and add nothing of its own that couldn't be confirmed in the Bible in some way.

Gibson did both liberally, and virtually everything changed and added generally intensified the purported "guilt" of Jews in the Crucifixion, including the depiction of Satan as a Aramaic-speaking female that shaved her head and wore wigs, as Orthodox Jewish women do, then and now.

For example, if the movie was intended to be an "accurate" portrayal of the Gospels, why was Matthew 27:25 given to, instead of the crowd, whose ethnicity is never directly established, Caiphas, whose ethnicity is unquestionable?

It's probably true that Gibson DOES believe that Christ died for everyone's sin, and that Jews aren't to be blamed collectively, and that he did say "no man takes my life: I lay it down freely." That's why the film doesn't deserve to be described as antisemitic. He didn't intend to stigmatize Jews, which is what counts.

But distorting and fictionalizing scripture in a manner that blames Jews IS a consistent theme throughout the film, and that's what was being complained about, not the substance of Christian belief.

That doesn't even consider insensitivities like using big hook noses as the focal point of a lap dissolve between scenes (like that was a typical trait of 1st Century Jews in the Galillee in the first place), or having Jewish children morph into demons.

If you really need an explanation as to why that was offensive, you're really hopeless. Of course, that would be the subject of outrage and complaints, just like the Black community would react if the old Amos and Andy episodes were resyndicated.

Neither of those things are rooted in the Bible. They're Gibson's own ad-libs. But insensitivity isn't the same thing as antisemitism.

Re(5): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:46:38 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

LEVINE SAYS: "Jesus isn't a factor in the Jewish religion. To Jews, it's pretty irrational to hate someone they never met that lived 2,000 years ago."

RESPONSE:

"[The article in Hebrew by Elliot Horowitz] deals with the character
of Purim over the centuries as a day combining ritual reversal, joys and hostility -- especially towards Christians and its symbols, as
well as with 19th and 20th century historiographical attempts to come
to grips with the troubling evidence concerning the activities of the
Jews as part of the holiday's carnivalesque character. The problematic character of much historiography concerning Purim can be seen in the case of H. Graetz who wrote that it had been the custom to burn Haman upon a gallows which had the form of cross. It was difficult for Jewish historians to speak their minds honestly about what Purim had been
like in the past, for fear it would reflect upon European Jewry. [The
article] stresses the tenacity of anti-Christian Purim practices, especially among European Jewry, in medieval and modern times." -- Religious and Theological Abstracts, 1995, 38, p. 851

Re(4): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 11:20:30 PM by George Shelps

Shelps, what do you think of Ms. Seidman's condemnation of your religion (via Mel Gibson's The Passion) and why, in your pro-Jewish, pro-Israel favoritism, do you endorse her view?

__No, her view is wrong. It's hard
to understand Christianity from outside
the faith and this writer does not.

Howewver, it is a sin to single out any ethic group for blanket condemnation with a selective use of facts the way you do.

I am convinced that Cones and Jaeger are fatally damaging the cause of film
industry reform by allowing you to spew
your hatred here. They would be wise to delete all your posts from the record.

I haven't yet seen PASSION OF THE CHRIST, but I doubt that it is anti-semitic and I doubt that the film
is anything but a sincere expression of
the Christian faith by Mel Gibson.

Re(5): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 11:36:13 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Mr. Shelps. You say this: "Howewver, it is a sin to single out any ethic group for blanket condemnation with a selective use of facts the way you do."

Are you aware that the Jewish categorically condemns Christianity for "anti-Semitism," vis-a-vis Christian teachings?

If so, since this is a "blanket condemnation," do you consider it a (Jewish) sin?

Re(6): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 00:54:14 AM by George Shelps

Are you aware that the Jewish categorically condemns Christianity for "anti-Semitism," vis-a-vis Christian teachings?

If so, since this is a "blanket condemnation," do you consider it a (Jewish) sin?

___Yes, but as usual you're selective. Almost all the Jews I've known respected
Jesus as a great moral teacher.

YYou could learn something from them.

Re(7): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 00:58:59 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

If YES, then why are not complaining about it with equal fervor, the way you complain about me? Why the double standard?

Re(8): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 03:21:35 AM by George Shelps



If YES, then why are not complaining about it with equal fervor, the way you complain about me? Why the double standard?
R
___No double standard! They're not posting here and you are. You are tainting the FIRM movement with your Jew-hating.


I checked your site to see what you've
been up to recently and I notice you
have two posts by Jaeger up there.

That will further disgrace his reform effort.

Re(9): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:40:58 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

What do you think of this quote, by the former (Jewish) chairman of Biblical Studies at Hebrew University in Jerusalem?

"What emerged for me, from the study of the first chapters of the book and their antecedents was the discovery that the main stream of Jewish
thought is permeated by the genetic spiritual superiority of Jews over
Gentiles, disconcertingly reminiscent of racist notions of our time. Living in Israel for the past twenty years in a Jewish majority that is no
more sensitive to the feelings of minorities within it than Gentile
majorities are.... [with] Jews in their midst, I have come to realize the
vitality of Jewish racist notions, and I am more than ever convinced that
the hold Judaism will have on this and future generations will be gravely
impaired unless these notions are neutralized by an internal reordering of traditional values." [GREENBERG, p. 33]

Greenberg, Moshe. A Problematic Heritage: The Attitude Toward the Gentile in the Jewish Tradition: An Israeli Perspective. Conservative
Judaism, v. XLVIII, no. 2, Winter 1996, p. 23-35

Re(8): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 03:20:12 AM by George Shelps



If YES, then why are not complaining about it with equal fervor, the way you complain about me? Why the double standard?
R
___No double standard! They're not posting here and you are. You are tainting the FIRM movement with your Jew-hating.


I checked your site to see what you've
been up to recently and I notice you
have two posts by Jaeger up there.

That will further disgrace his reform effort.

Re(9): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 03:27:24 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

You avoided my question. I ask you again, directly. What do you think of this quote below, by a former Jewish head of Biblical Studies at Hebrew University in Jerusalem? Is Mr. Greenberg an "anti-Semite?" Is he a "Jew hater" for exposing the historical stream of racism in Jewish identity? If he is NOT a "Jew-hater" in your eyes, then why am I for broadening the audience for what professor Greenberg says?

But please do not avoid again telling me what you think of the SUBSTANCE of professor Greenberg's quote below:

"What emerged for me, from the study of the first chapters of the book and their antecedents was the discovery that the main stream of Jewish
thought is permeated by the genetic spiritual superiority of Jews over
Gentiles, disconcertingly reminiscent of racist notions of our time. Living in Israel for the past twenty years in a Jewish majority that is no
more sensitive to the feelings of minorities within it than Gentile
majorities are.... [with] Jews in their midst, I have come to realize the
vitality of Jewish racist notions, and I am more than ever convinced that
the hold Judaism will have on this and future generations will be gravely
impaired unless these notions are neutralized by an internal reordering of traditional values." [GREENBERG, p. 33]

Greenberg, Moshe. A Problematic Heritage: The Attitude Toward the Gentile in the Jewish Tradition: An Israeli Perspective. Conservative
Judaism, v. XLVIII, no. 2, Winter 1996, p. 23-35

Re(10): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:21:46 PM by George Shelps

If he is NOT a "Jew-hater" in your eyes, then why am I for broadening the audience for what professor Greenberg says?

___Because your posts and your site are
filled with animosity and contempt for
Jews and Judaism...I gave your use of "Jew Republic" in reference to "The
New Republic" magazine...this is worthy
of Julius Streicher.

Re(11): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:51:44 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

I am asking you in good faith for the third time to examine professor Moshe Greenberg's quote that I provide again below, and tell me what you think of it. You are refusing to give an opinion. Why? What are you afraid of?

It's not a very complicated text. You should be able to clearly understand what this Jewish expert in Jewish studies is saying. I ask you again, what do you think about it?


"What emerged for me, from the study of the first chapters of the book and their antecedents was the discovery that the main stream of Jewish
thought is permeated by the genetic spiritual superiority of Jews over
Gentiles, disconcertingly reminiscent of racist notions of our time. Living in Israel for the past twenty years in a Jewish majority that is no
more sensitive to the feelings of minorities within it than Gentile
majorities are.... [with] Jews in their midst, I have come to realize the
vitality of Jewish racist notions, and I am more than ever convinced that
the hold Judaism will have on this and future generations will be gravely
impaired unless these notions are neutralized by an internal reordering of traditional values." [GREENBERG, p. 33]

Greenberg, Moshe. A Problematic Heritage: The Attitude Toward the Gentile in the Jewish Tradition: An Israeli Perspective. Conservative
Judaism, v. XLVIII, no. 2, Winter 1996, p. 23-35


Re(6): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 00:41:56 AM by Mitchell Levine

It's not a "blanket condemnation" of ALL Christians for "antisemitism," it's a condemnation of those specific Christians, churchs, and Christian teachings that DID perpetuate antisemitism.

Christian antisemitism WAS a major factor in the spread of antisemitic beliefs - that hardly means that all Christians are guilty collectively for it, any more than all Jews are collectively guilty for the Crucifixion. In fact, nothing could be less Christian than antisemitism, as Christ certainly would have condemned it.

It's sad that the Catholic Church didn't until the Vatican II, but crucial to note that it did condemn it.

Re(7): Mr. Cones, Jenks is back, time to delete his posts\
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 11:54:52 AM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Mr. Levine. I like the way you always try to speak for Mr. Shelps. Apparently he doesn't care.

This issue, per Jews, is that "blanket condemnation" is a crime. Per Christians? For Jews, this blanket condemnation is KOSHER:

Here's a couple GENERIC anti-Christian Jewish quotes and you well know that this is a common opinion in the Jewish community:

"The crime against the Jewish people," declares Rabbi Eliezer Berkovitz, "is
the cancer at the very heart of Christianity... [HALBERSTAM, p. 232] ... In order to pacify the Christian conscience it is said that the Nazis were not Christians. But they were all the children of Christians ... [p. 226] ... Without Christianity's New Testament, Hitler's Mein Kampf could never have been written." [HALBERSTAM, p. 238]

"Let's not shy away from the hard truth," says Joshua Halberstam, "For
many Jews, the unspoken lesson of the Shoah is that they cannot trust Christians with their children. Tens of thousands of Christians with crosses around their necks sent millions of innocent Jews and millions of other innocent men, women, and children to their horrid deaths while many of their fellow Christians cheered." [HALBERSTAM, p. 226]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same Censorship Theme
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 05:10:05 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

Herein lies the same Judeocentric censorship theme, whether in mass culture (in this case France) or this FIRM forum. People must not be allowed to make up their own minds about ANYTHING pertaining to Jews: Jewish Lobbyists and Judeocentric sychophants will make up peoples' minds for them:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Entertainment/reuters20040326_423.html

Jewish Brothers Seek French Ban on the Passion, ABC News, March 26, 2004

"Three Jewish brothers urged a Paris court on Friday to ban MelGibson's "The Passion of The Christ" from French cinemas as anti-Semitic only days before the U.S. box office hit is due to open in France. The brothers -- Patrick, Jean-Marc and Gerard Benlolo
-- said at a hastily-arranged hearing that they as Jews felt insulted
by the film, which they had not seen,
and were sure it would provoke anti-Semitic violence. Jewish critics
in the United States, where the movie opened last month, have charged
the film about Jesus Christ's suffering and death unjustly portrayed Jews as his killers, but this appeared to be the first attempt anywhere to ban it. "There is so much violent anti-Semitism in Europe that we cannot let this happen," said Patrick Benlolo, referring to rising anti-Jewish violence, especially in France. The brothers, lawyers for distributor Quinta Communications and the judge
interrupted the hearing to see the film in a private showing at a nearby cinema. The Passion is due to open in France next Wednesday. The distributor urged the judge to throw out the case because the brothers could not use their religion as the basis for a complaint. Its lawyer also argued they did not show how the film could cause public disorder. The dossier the brothers submitted to support their request contained several legal errors
and 15 of its 36 pages were quotes from U.S. movie reviews and an American book in English, which the judge said the court could not accept. "Everybody speaks English, don't they?" Patrick Benlolo replied. The court was due to issue its ruling on Monday."

 

 

MORE J. CENSORSHIP IN FRANCE
Posted on March 26, 2004 at 10:10:38 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

More censorial World Jewish Klan:

The world view below is quite the same of FIRM's own resident Jewish totalitarian censor, Mr. Levine. For the Jewish Thought Police, everything boils down to the "Nazi-fascist." Here, a powerful, censorial cinema Jew in France decrees that Mel Gibson's movie about Christ that has already been seen and respected by millions of Christians, is "fascist."


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=504354

'Passion' is fascist propaganda: French film boss, By John Lichfield, The Independent (UK), in Paris 24 March 2004

"An independent French film distributor has described Mel Gibson'sThe
Passion of the Christ as "fascist propaganda". Marin Karmitz, president of the MK2 group, said that he would not show the movie - a runaway box-office success in the United States - in any of his 10 cinemas. In a statement to The Hollywood Reporter, the newspaper of the American movie
industry, M. Karmit said: "I have
always fought against fascism, notably through [the films I show]. For me, Passion is a film of fascist propaganda."

M. Karmitz is president of the French federation of movie distributors, but said that he had no objection to the film appearing in other cinemas in France to allow an informed debate on Gibson's work. He accused the Australian-born director of not only presenting a distorted and anti-Semitic view of the New Testament story but also "turning violence and barbarity into a spectacle". "For two hours, you see a man being tortured, nothing else," said M. Karmitz.

Although he is Jewish, he criticised Jewish lobbies in the US for focusing on the alleged anti-Semitic elements in the movie and not its "culture of violence". "Behind this Passion ... you can glimpse a whole internationale of
religious fundamentalism, a martyrology based on violence, contempt for the body and hatred for [humanity]," he said. The film is due to be released in 600 cinemas across France on 31 March by Quinta Distribution, a company owned by the Franco-Tunisian film producer Tarak Ben Ammar. M. Ben Ammar, who produced Franco Zeffirelli's equally controversial Jesus of Nazareth in 1977 and Roberto Rossellini's The Messiah in 1975, has said the film is not racist or anti-Semitic.

Other French distribution firms have been wary of the movie. The Catholic
hierarchy described itas "challenging". M. Ben Ammar said: "I thought
it was my duty as a Muslim who believes in Jesus, and because I was
brought up to respect all three monotheist religions, to show this movie to the people of France and let them judge for themselves."

 

 

New Online Book
Posted on March 27, 2004 at 10:58:21 PM by MOSHE THE GOYIM

A new online book; I haven't read it yet, but it looks promising:


http://www.demischools.org/gibson.pdf

The War on Mel Gibson. The Media vs. The Passion, by Gary North, demischools.org [pdf file; 233-page book]

"Movies have long served as both symbols and tools. They reinforce
people’s opinions. The question is: Do they change people’s opinions?
Hollywood and the secular humanists who have been in control of this tool have always denied that it is a tool. "It’s just entertainment." I think they knew better. Their overwhelmingly hostile reaction to The Passion indicates either that they always knew better or else they have now undergone a transformation in their thinking. I think it’s the former. They always knew. The movies have been crowbars that Hollywood’s humanists have used for a generation to pry Americans
away from their first principles: religious, moral, and cultural.

I think it is time for Christians to recognize what has been done to them. It is also time for Christians to learn how to use this tool to fight back ...

Is The Passion the first step in a systematic, comprehensive counter-attack by Christians in a cultural war that Christians have been losing for almost a century? I think this is the case. So does Hollywood and Hollywood’s cheerleaders in the media. This is why they are horrified. In this book, you will get an idea of just how horrified
they are, and also why. This will cheer you up for the whole week. Maybe longer."

 

 

 

New Cartoon for Kids
Posted on March 24, 2004 at 01:51:41 PM by James Jaeger

There's an excellent new cartoon for kids out by DreamWorks called GEFILTE FISH, INC. It's an undersea mob comedy featuring the anthropomorphic likes of Meyer Sharksky, Scallops Shapiro, Bugsy Seagull and Arnold Squidstein.

Any problems with this?(1)

James Jaeger



-------------------------
http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125%7E1549%7E2025393,00.html

Children's cartoon film 'Shark Tale', By Rosario A. Iaconis, Alameda Times-Star, March 18, 2004

"There's a new breed of anthropomorphic fish roiling the briny
deep. It's the undersea predator spawned by DreamWorks
SKG in "Shark Tale," the upcoming children's cartoon adventure.
Unlike Tinseltown's other aquatic role models, this animated bottom-feeder belongs to a vicious celluloid species: the "Sopranos" goombah stereotype. By grafting the bigoted imagery of "The Sopranos" -- along with a generous whiff of "Goodfellas" and "The Godfather" -- onto a computer-generated flick for kids, DreamWorks' Steven Spielberg, Jeffrey Katzenberg and David Geffen have crossed the line into the cinematic exploitation of children. Ethnic profiling, sinister crime families and mob rubouts are not the stuff of cutesy cartoon comedy.

But the greater issue is the damage done to the self-esteem and psychological development of impressionable minors. Bigotry must not be nurtured at an early age; hatred should not come dressed in primary colors.

Slated for release Oct. 1, "Shark Tale" is a computer-generated minstrel show filled with piscine mobsters who sleep, eat and kill with the fishes -- and sport such names as Don Lino, Luca, Frankie, Lenny and Angie. Robert De Niro, Martin Scorsese, Michael Imperioli and Vincent Pastore provide the guttural voice-overs. And the plot would make Tony Soprano and Uncle Junior proud.


More than a year ago, DreamWorks animation chief Jeffrey Katzenberg said the "Shark Tale" milieu should not be hard for mob aficionados to fathom: "Imagine an underwater cityscape that is Chicago meets Las Vegas meets Miami." He has even boasted of the movie's reverential nods to "everything from 'The Untouchables' to 'Some Like It Hot' to all three 'Godfather'
films." Is this appropriate children's fare? No, "Shark Tale" is a calculated attempt to cash in on the popularity of "The Sopranos" by introducing a new generation of youngsters to the anti-Italian intolerance that has become a staple of adult entertainment. DreamWorks hopes that kids will, quite literally, buy into the benighted notion that Italian-ness connotes organized crime. A sequel is already in the works ...

Imagine the outrage in the Jewish community if DreamWorks unveiled "Gefilte Fish Inc.," an undersea mob comedy featuring the anthropomorphic likes of Meyer Sharksky, Scallops Shapiro, Bugsy Seagull and Arnold Squidstein."

------------------------

(1) I'm being sarcastic for those of you who didn't get it.

 

 

PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 7, 2004 at 11:06:37 PM by James Jaeger

Gee, I guess the studio brass at FOX will finance Mel's next picture. See what happens when the narrowly-defined Control Group allows others to tell THEIR unique stories!

But will THE PASSION be nominated for Best Picture and win next March, that's an interesting question?

Many in Hollywood are probably hoping that everyone will forget about it by then. Meanwhile THE PASSION will have raked in over $2 billion world wide. Given a 35% distribution fee, and minimal P&A (thanks to Abe), Mel should be able to pocket a significant sum. But then the Adacemy doesn't care about gross proceeds of distribution.

Maybe Mel should take his cash and purchase DreamWorks SKG. He could re-name it DreamWorks MEL.

James Jaeger

Re(1): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 7, 2004 at 11:22:26 PM by Mitchell Levine

Gee, Jim, that story was SO unique, the "control group" had already financed it being told 20 or so times in the past. The only significant difference between Mel's version and Zeffirelli's is that it's inferior (and gorier).

In other words, the only thing to learn from this story is that prerelease publicity accelerates box office sales.

Mel won't pocket anything other than his investment, because he presold the profits.

Re(2): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 8, 2004 at 10:00:57 PM by James Jaeger

Who wants to see the story of Jesus Christ told 20 times by a bunch of Jews. That's why the GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JOHN didn't do well. Who wants to see the story about a bunch of Blacks told by Jewish filmmaker, Steven Spielberg. That's why AMASTAD didn't do well.

The Christian community knew that THE PASSION was being told by a Christian, Mel Gibson, and they responded to that.

Thus my original comment stands: When people get to tell their stories without being censored by the Control Group, audiences will respond.

And as far as what Mel gets to keep, you have no idea unless you have seen his distribution agreement or pre-sale agreements. Just because he pre-sold rights to finance the picture, IF he even did this, doesn't mean he won't see a back end. Some financial analysis have indicated that he may see over $500,000,000 in back end.

James Jaeger

Re(3): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 8, 2004 at 10:22:53 PM by Mitchell Levine

Jim, the story of Christ WAS told by Jews - they wrote the New Testament.

The only Gospel apparently written by a non-Jew WAS the Gospel According to John - John was Greek.

Plenty of successful re-tellings of the Gospel stories were "created by Jews," and several unsuccessful (commercially) versions were told by Christians. Quite a few people went out to see The Greatest Story Ever Told, for example.

And the trades don't believe that he'll see anything other than the return of his investment.

Re(4): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 8, 2004 at 11:21:21 PM by George Shelps

The only Gospel apparently written by a non-Jew WAS the Gospel According to John - John was Greek.


---Luke, actually.

 

Re(5): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 9, 2004 at 00:35:54 AM by Mitchell Levine

My apologies to you, sir - it's John of Revelations that wrote in Greek, not the same individual.

It's been a while since Catholic school.

Re(6): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 9, 2004 at 01:09:17 AM by Mitchell Levine

By the way, happy Easter.

Re(7): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 9, 2004 at 11:20:18 PM by George Shelps

By the way, happy Easter.

____Thank you, the true holy Christian holiday...one which can't be ruined like Christmas has been.

I believe Pesach is still going on....though I am not sure you observe it...nevertheless, I salute the holiday..from which the Eucharist is derived.

Re(8): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 9, 2004 at 11:45:32 PM by Mitchell Levine

I don't "celebrate" either, in terms of formal practice, but I venerate the ideals, which I hope is what's important.

BTW, because the only presentation of Christianity I've received is the Catholic one, do most Christian denominations celebrate Good Friday, or is that primarily specific to the Roman church, like Ash Wednesday? (A close friend of mine's Protestant, and I wasn't sure whether or not to wish her well for it).

Re(9): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 10, 2004 at 10:00:28 AM by George Shelps

do most Christian denominations celebrate Good Friday, or is that primarily specific to the Roman church, like Ash Wednesday? (A close friend of mine's Protestant, and I wasn't sure whether or not to wish her well for it

____Protestant denominations certainly honor the day in some way, but not sure about special liturgies...I can speak for the Episcopal Church---of which I
am a member---there is a Good Friday
service and special liturgy...I also
am aware of a joint observance of a three hour vigil (symbolic of the time that Christ hung on the cross) that numerous Protestant Churches participate in locally here. (The Episcopal Church also has an Ash Wednesday service with animposition of ashes...the EC, a part kf the worldwide Anglican Church, preserves more Roman Catholic forms than
the other Protestant Churches...including an ordained priesthood and some branches--called "High Church" or Anglo-Catholic--call
their Sunday service a Mass, chant the
;iturgy, use incense, even have a confessional...

Re(10): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 10, 2004 at 11:29:25 PM by Mitchell Levine

Thanks for the info, and best wishes on your most favored of holidays.

Re(4): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 8, 2004 at 10:58:45 PM by James Jaeger

>Jim, the story of Christ WAS told by Jews - they wrote the New Testament.

They were no longer Jews when they wrote the New Testament. They were Christians. They converted. Remember, Jews are NOT a race, according to you.

>The only Gospel apparently written by a non-Jew WAS the Gospel According to John - John was Greek.

My point is: Christians seem to want to see a story about Christianity done by Christians. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

The people that made THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JOHN were not devout Christians. They were just Jewish filmmakers trying to exploit the Christian community in a similar way Scorsese tried with THE LAST TEMPTATION. I liked LAST TEMPTATION and felt that Scorsese was trying to tell this story in a way that he truly felt passionate about, so I applaud the studios for letting him tell HIS story. But that said, I also spit on the studios because they allowed him to make "his story" on THIS subject most likely because it was a story that assaulted the Christian community to a certain degree.

Again, I personally liked what Scorsese was trying to do by playing a "what if" game in his story – what if Jesus didn't die for our sins. But could you imagine the reaction of the Jewish Control Group if I were to take them another Scorsese-type picture but in my "what if" movie I ask the question what if Hitler were a sweet guy and he loved the Jews and so together they killed all the Europeans, plundered their wealth, and set out to fulfill the goals set forth in "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." Do you think the liberal, not-very-religious Jewish males of European heritage that control the studios would finance that? Not a chance. But what if Hitler was a great guy who loved all the Jews but hated Christians and sent them to the camps. Would the Control Group finance that? They might.

>Plenty of successful re-tellings of the Gospel stories were "created by Jews," and several unsuccessful (commercially) versions were told by Christians.

Usually the Jewish productions have vast money behind them but the Christian productions are shoe-string. I have seen many of both.

>And the trades don't believe that he'll see anything other than the return of his investment.

But who has seen the contracts? No one I bet. If you were putting $30 million of your own money on the line, would you make your financial instruments available to the Hollywood Reporter? Of course not, so any speculation about what Mel will get can only be made along the lines of hearsay or what the typical independent movie deal is (and I have already exhaustively out lined that elsewhere).

James Jaeger

Re(5): PASSION on Way to $350 Million
Posted on April 9, 2004 at 00:30:03 AM by Mitchell Levine

They were no longer Jews when they wrote the New Testament. They were Christians. They converted. Remember, Jews are NOT a race, according to you.

- Not in the case of the Gospels, Jim - at the time they wrote those texts, they were still practicing a subset of Judaism that preached that Christ was the prophesied Messiah, before the formation of the early church, if they really witnessed the events they wrote about.

Paul converted to Christianity, but that was a hundred years later, and he was the first to declare, unlike Apostle Peter's school taught, that Jewish rituals and dietary laws were no longer required of Christians, and fully broke the connection.

And, while I don't hold that Jews are a "race," because membership is potentially elective, Jews are still an ethnicity, and not purely a belief system. That complexity is one of the reasons why cultural anthropologists are fascinated with the Jews.

My point is: Christians seem to want to see a story about Christianity done by Christians. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

- My point is that you make pseudo-factual statements all the time when you have no idea what you're talking about, sometimes even about your own religion.

Christians have adored movies about Christianity made by Jews on the merits of the films themselves, and scorned films made by Christians.

They were just Jewish filmmakers trying to exploit the Christian community in a similar way Scorsese tried with THE LAST TEMPTATION.

- No, they weren't: they were filmmakers looking to make a movie about the most emotionally compelling story in world history - even to non-Christians like myself.

And Scorsese was not trying to "exploit" anyone: he was attempting to express his deep religious sentiments, and did not think there was the slightest chance that the film would ever be a hit with anyone except critics and theologians. He had to trade off on everything he achieved from Raging Bull to get that movie made, especially considering the box office disappointment of the King of Comedy.

I liked LAST TEMPTATION and felt that Scorsese was trying to tell this story in a way that he truly felt passionate about, so I applaud the studios for letting him tell HIS story. But that said, I also spit on the studios because they allowed him to make "his story" on THIS subject most likely because it was a story that assaulted the Christian community to a certain degree.

- That's ridiculous, Jim - most Jews have no idea why many people that consider themselves Christians were offended by the film. The idea that a dream sequence in which he experiences an illusion created by Satan where he marries and fathers children was blasphemous wouldn't really be apparent to Jews.

If the film suggested that this really happened, then it would seem comprehensible to them. They certainly didn't feel that a similar treatment of King David was offensive. The studios probably inferred that if devout Christians like Martin Scorsese or Kazantakis believed the film was in good taste, why should they think otherwise?

You might recall that the movie had some elements that were much less than flattering to Jews, although that fact was overlooked in the uproar. For example, Christ tells the Jews at the Temple of Jerusalem: "You think you're special? God is NOT an Israelite!"

The fact that he was portrayed with human uncertainties and limitations also wouldn't seem to be sacrilege to Jewish sensibilities. That doesn't necessarily mean that Christians are wrong for feeling that way; just that Jews wouldn't be likely to share those perceptions, and therefore conclude that the film WAS antagonistic to Christianity.

Again, I personally liked what Scorsese was trying to do by playing a "what if" game in his story – what if Jesus didn't die for our sins. But could you imagine the reaction of the Jewish Control Group if I were to take them another Scorsese-type picture but in my "what if" movie I ask the question what if Hitler were a sweet guy and he loved the Jews and so together they killed all the Europeans, plundered their wealth, and set out to fulfill the goals set forth in "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." Do you think the liberal, not-very-religious Jewish males of European heritage that control the studios would finance that? Not a chance. But what if Hitler was a great guy who loved all the Jews but hated Christians and sent them to the camps. Would the Control Group finance that? They might.

- That's, once again, a preposterous comparison: Scorsese was not asking "did Jesus die for our sins?"; he clearly believed and believes that he certainly did.

Scorsese's question was an attempt by a believer to express a new insight into his belief; your bit about the Protocols would do nothing but direct attention to a notorious forgery intended only to further bigotry.

Questions about religion are metaphysical ones - no one can prove or disprove them at this time. That's a different situation from ones about history and sociology like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

And as far as your Hitler scenario goes, I'm sure Mel Brooks would love to make it - the one about him loving the Jews, not putting Christians in death camps. Hollywood would never even consider making either film, even as science fiction.

Usually the Jewish productions have vast money behind them but the Christian productions are shoe-string. I have seen many of both.

- Zeffirelli's was big-budget, by TV standards, but still a ratings disaster. It was still much better than Mel's, although it failed to reach the insight about Jesus inventing the dining set.

All you do is validate the idea that Christians, like everyone else, prefer to see well-made movies over poorly-made ones regardless of who made them.

But who has seen the contracts? No one I bet. If you were putting $30 million of your own money on the line, would you make your financial instruments available to the Hollywood Reporter? Of course not, so any speculation about what Mel will get can only be made along the lines of hearsay or what the typical independent movie deal is (and I have already exhaustively out lined that elsewhere).

- He apparently contacted numerous studios and distributors offering to presell his profits in exchange for just putting the film in theatres - most of which turned him down flat - and Newcastle would have been exceedingly stupid to offer him anything else under the conditions, particularly if they believed it would be successful.

They were certainly aware that his contract wouldn't let him make other films with New Castle - especially if the movie was successful.

 

 

Remember the Alamo!
Posted on April 13, 2004 at 11:06:25 AM by John Cones

Remember the Alamo! Apparently Hollywood does not. In the latest Hollywood controversy some historians are claiming that Hollywood's latest attempt to tell the real story of what happened at the Alamo was based on a forged book, and that the film amounted to nothing more than a continuing attempt by Hollywood to tear down American heroes, heroes and heroic acts that have been inspiring people all over the world for many years. It just doesn't seem that Hollywood can do anything right these days.

John Cones

 

The Gray Old Lady
Posted on April 17, 2004 at 03:59:45 PM by James Jaeger

99.5 percent of the American public does not read the Old Gray Lady and thus probably does not even know what it is.

Yet, the Old Gray Lady provides the agenda, and the ideology, for the TV networks which in turn provide the agenda and ideology for the rest of the print, TV and Hollywood media throughout the United States. Yes, once the environment has been saturated with the "politically correct" agenda, the movie executives in Hollywood can feel "comfortable" about greenlighting themes that fit in nicely with the public's view of "reality."

It's a cozy little ideology manufacturing system, originated and legitimized by the Old Gray Lady on one coast and fleshed out and made hip by the MPAA studios on the other coast. In essence, the 99.5% of us that live in between New York City and the Studio Zone in Los Angeles are regularly sprayed with thought-killing pesticide first brewed by the media elite at the Gray Old Lady, also known as the NEW YORK TIMES.

Bernard Goldberg, a liberal, not-very-religious, Jewish male, has the courage to tell at least a portion of the truth (when he dissented from the company line as an insider at CBS News for 28 years) by writing an Op-Ed for the Wall Street Journal claiming that the elite media is in fact LIBERAL, and then following up with a best selling book, BIAS, to describe the fallout.

I quote from Bernard’s current book, ARROGANCE:

"So yes, the NEW YORK TIMES does indeed occupy a unique place in American journalism. And it’s not just because its columns are syndicated to hundreds of local papers around the country. It’s mostly because it sets the AGENDA for so many other news outlets, especially the networks where most Americans get their world and national news.... If the TIMES decrees a story important, by definition it IS important. And when the TIMES ignores a story – or a book or a social trend or an IDEA – then it is INVISIBLE."


So a SOCIAL TREND, a BOOK or an IDEA is "invisible" unless the NEW YORK TIMES stamps it with their okay. Goldberg then goes on to explain how the WRITTEN WORD is then translated into the CINEMATIC IMAGE.

Goldberg:

"On a typical morning, this is how assignment editors and producers at the network news divisions begin their day. Step one: They open up the NEW YORK TIMES. Step two: They scan the paper for stories to put on their nightly news casts. Step three: They get one of their high-priced reporters (who is in his or her own office also reading the NEW YORK TIMES) on the phone – a reporter who may not have come up with even one original STORY IDEA in his entire network career (I mean that LITERALLY) – and tell him or her to go out and do the NEW YORK TIMES story. Step four: He or she does, and that evening a video version of the TIMES story is on the air."


Once a STORY, authorized as "valid" or "important" is rubber stamped by the NEW YORK TIMES, it is a candidate for what will one day become a POLITICALLY CORRECT TELPLAY OR SCREENPLAY sitting on a Hollywood studio executive’s desk in Century City. Often this telplay is for a "MOVIE OF THE WEEK" (known as an MOW or TV movie). The company that underwrites most of the MOWs is CBS, Bernard’s old hangout. When CBS signs a licensing agreement to pick up the costs of the MOW, a production company (often one working for the TV division of an MPAA studio, such as Columbia Pictures TV), produces the politically correct, NEW YORK TIMES-stamped telplay.

Other NEW YORK TIMES-stamped ideas that warrant production on a more grand scale are turned into what’s known as SCREENPLAYS. These screenplays are then funded by the MPAA studios and released as FEATURES which then go out to thousands of movie theaters and Blockbuster stores (many owned by the studios) all over the country. The feature event thus puts the final POLISH on a STORY or IDIOLOGY originated and/or authorized by the NEW YORK TIMES.

Of course this is not how all movies are made in Hollywood, but the social and cultural trends we are experiencing in America are to no small degree CAUSED by this cost to coast indoctrination process. Hitler would have killed to have had such a system!

And by the way, the demographic that controls the MPAA studio distributors, i.e., politically liberal, not very religious (secular) Jewish males (see http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/control.htm#execlist ) is similar or identical to the demographic that has ultimate control over the NEW YORK TIMES as its publisher, Arthur "Pinch" Sulzberger Jr., -- the control cat who, according to Goldberg, is "the most powerful figure at the TIMES, the same guy who sets the doggedly PC tone at the paper" -- is a politically liberal, not very religious (secular), Jewish male.

With such a propaganda machine in place from coast to coast, is it any wonder that unique stories originated from 99.5% of the public never see the light of day? Is it okay, that in a republic, where the free flow of ideas is our life blood, that a narrowly defined group of elite call the shots on what becomes the very culture we then call "reality"? I think not. It is time for Americans to realize that the ALIENS that came out of the woodwork and assailed Mel Gibson for making a movie that was NOT authorized by the Gray Old Lady -- are causing the very problems we need to solve if we are to remain a free and diverse society.

James Jaeger

Re(1): The Gray Old Lady
Posted on April 18, 2004 at 04:09:18 PM by George Shelps

OOnce again, I want to object to the
inclusion of a religious/ethnic identifier in the matter of the
communication of liberal political ideology...I happen to agree that there is a cultural elite which slants national political and cultural discourse, but it doesn't have an ethnic bias that I can detect.

Re(2): The Gray Old Lady
Posted on April 18, 2004 at 05:54:41 PM by James Jaeger

>. . . is a cultural elite which slants national political and cultural discourse, but it doesn't have an ethnic bias that I can detect.

In the case of the NEW YORK TIMES, I can only point out that the publisher is Jewish, male, liberal and probably secular. As to whether this pattern, which we see in the 7 MPAA studios, is identical, similar or different to the elite print media and TV network media, I cannot say. This would be a good area for a sister study to John Cones' study on the studios in the Hollywood-based U.S. motion picture industry.

James Jaeger

 


Re(1): The Gray Old Lady
Posted on April 19, 2004 at 02:38:17 PM by Mitchell Levine

More paranoid nonsense - what evidence is there that most screenplays have stories based on articles in the Times? Is that where the Farrelly brothers and Tom Green get their ideas too?

You speak about this "system" like it was engineered from the top down by some shadowy cabal to force people to buy tickets to see romantic comedies with Hugh Grant. It wasn't: writers will look for stories because it's an imperative for them to do so, and sometimes they'll find them in newspapers.

The Times is the highest-circulating and most respected newspaper in the country, so obviously people will read it. What are you planning on doing? Revoking freedom of the press? Making it illegal to base a screenplay on a Times newspaper story?

And now you're claiming that people who were offended by Mel Gibson's insensitive picture are "ALIENS???" It's attitudes like that which keep this from being a free and diverse society, not anything the studios are doing.


Re(3): The Gray Old Lady
Posted on April 18, 2004 at 09:52:21 PM by George Shelps

In the case of the NEW YORK TIMES, I can only point out that the publisher is Jewish, male, liberal and probably secular. As to whether this pattern, which we see in the 7 MPAA studios, is identical, similar or different to the elite print media and TV network media, I cannot say. This would be a good area for a sister study to John Cones' study on the studios in the Hollywood-based U.S. motion picture industry.

--Why? The Times is liberal regardless
of the ethnic background of the writers.
(Is Maureen Dowd Jewish?)

Your model once again unnecessarily drags in religion and ethnicity. By doing so, you hurt the cause of diversity.

 

 

Diversity at Hollywood Studios
Posted on April 18, 2004 at 10:15:27 PM by James Jaeger

>I'll skip all the nonsense and get to the point.

Please do.

>So what's your argument? There's a lack of diversity in holywood?

No, that's my complaint. But the complaint is NOT a lack of diversity in HOLLYWOOD, it's a lack of diversity in the top 3 positions of the 7 MAJOR STUDIOS.

Let me explain.

Each year there are about 500 feature films produced in the U.S. About 150 of these features are produced by the major studios collectively. These major studios are more properly known as the MPAA studio/distributors. MPAA stands for the Motion Picture Association of America and their web site is at http://www.mpss.org There are 7 companies that are in the association. The 7 companies are: Disney, Sony Pictures, MGM, Paramount Pictures, Twentieth Century Fox, Universal and Warner Bros. You have heard of them I assume.

The other 350 features are produced by smaller independent production companies and mini major distributors. Even though the studios only produce about 1/3rd of the product, they monopolize about 85% of the theatrical screens and shelf space in major video stores. Thus, 7 companies preempt most of the cash flow possible in the U.S. market place. You say, this is the way capitalism works. I say not so fast, read on, these pictures aren’t necessarily the most ORIGINAL or ENTERTAINING pictures. Thus FREE ENTERPRISE CAPITALISM is NOT at work in the movie biz.

When a market condition like what I just described occurs, it is often called an OLIGOPOLI. Instead of one (1) company monopolizing the market, we have seven (7) companies monopolizing the market. Thus, these 7 companies in the MPAA have the combined effect of a monopoly. The fact that the MPAA has only 7 companies in it, and NO ONE else is invited to join, is further evidence that these 7 member companies have the effect of a monopoly. But since we characterize it as an "oligopoly," this loophole allows them to escape the Sherman anti-Trust laws. What’s that? Remember back in the old days when the courts decreed that the major studios were in violation of anti-trust laws and made them divest their theaters? This was known as the Paramount Consent Decree. This is a long story and I can’t get into it now, but suffice it to say, the studios have figured out ways of getting around the Consent Decree.

So here we are in 2004, and as I mentioned, these studios have figured out ways of once again monopolizing the markets through various unethical, predatory and illegal means. Since I am not a lawyer, but my partner John W. Cones, IS a lawyer, I now refer you to one of his articles entitled "337 REPORTED BUSINESS PRACTICES OF THE MAJOR STUDIO/DISTRIBUTORS" which can be found at http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/distprac.htm

Now if you carefully go through this document, you will see what I mean by "unethical, predatory and illegal." Further, if you go to Amazon.com and search for "THE FEATURE FILM DISTRIBUTION DEAL" by John W. Cones, you will uncover this book. Many consider this book the Hollywood film industry bible when it comes to exactly how the studios use "unethical, predatory and illegal" practices to "creatively account" profits that would otherwise be payable to talent and other net profit participants.

So in summary: an oligopoly of 7 major studios make 1/3rd of the product yet preempt 85% of the cash flow and their pictures are not necessarily the most original or the most entertaining. Thus 85% of the pay checks that are passed around in Hollywood come from one of the 7 MPAA studio/distributors. Get it?

Are you with me on this so far? Now, pay attention:

The top executive in a corporation is known as the CEO. This stands for Chief Executive Officer. The CEO may also be the president of the corporation or the chairman of the board of the corporation. The next highest post in a corporation, as such pertains to the MOVIE BUSINESS, is the President of Production. The President of Production decides which movies will be MADE in consultation with his juniors and as AUTHORIZED by the CEO. The next highest executive in this stratum of "top executives" is known as the COO, Chief Operating Officer. The COO decides HOW these movies will be made in consultation with the VP of Physical Production and WHO will make them in consultation with the Sr. VP of Marketing ALL as AUTHORIZED and APPROVED by the President of Production who reports to the CEO. These 3 or 4 TOP positions MANAGE and CONTROL the operations and the money of the corporation on behalf of the board of directors elected by the stockholders of the corporation. Keep in mind that often the CEO and other top officers appoint all or part of the board of directors and the stockholders simply rubberstamp their candidates. The reason the stockholders, ESPECIALLY IN THE MOVIE BIZ, tend to rubber stamp the appointments and management decisions of the TOP EXECUTIVES of the studios is because they FEAR what is known as a MASS EXODUS. What is a MASS EXODUS? A mass exodus is what occurs when the top managers of a movie studio do not like what the stockholders (the owners) are telling them to do and they all walk out at once. This renders the studio helpless and exposes it to much more risk than it could usually recover from had the stockholders just went along with the management's decisions and rubber stamped everything. For a full understanding of how this mechanism works and who it has been historically used on of the MPAA studios over the past 90-some years, see http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/whats.htm and a book called HOW THE MOVIE WARS WERE WON c/o http://www.mecfilms.com/coneslaw/conesbk.htm

With me so far?

Summary: the top 3 executives of the 7 major studios control 85% of the cash in Hollywood and even the owners of the studios can’t tell them what to do.

Now that’s the situation in Hollywood. You either believe me or you don’t. Let’s say you don’t believe me and you don’t believe John Cones. Here is a bibliography of about 100 other books by a wide variety of other people, Jews and non-Jews, who have also studied Hollywood and the studios and are basically saying the same things. The bibliography is at http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/resbib.htm


So, the 7 major studios have 3 top executives that control them. 7 x 3 = 21. This means that twenty-one (21) people control 85% of the cash in Hollywood. With me so far? 21 executives control the MONEY. Let’s call them the "21 EXECS." The 21 EXECS control the CASH. Get it? Just 21 of them. 85% of the bucks under the control of the 21 EXECS.

In other words:

THE 21 EXECS THAT MANAGE AND CONTROL THE 7 MPAA STUDIOS ARE THE ONES THAT SIGN THE CHECKS. These checks are for $30,000,000; $40,000,000; $50,000,000; $60,000,000; $100,000,000. These checks ultimately PAY everyone in Hollywood their FEES or WAGES or SALARIES or PROFIT PARTICIPATIONS or ROYALTIES.

Are you with me so far, because you will really need to pay attention to the next thing I am going to say as it’s a VERY difficult concept to grasp:

THE 21 EXECS DO NOT GET OSCARS.

Did you get that?

THE 21 EXECS DO NOT GET UP ON THE STAGE AT THE KODAK PAVILLION AND ACCEPT AN OSCAR AND THEN START WEEPING OR SPEWING POLITICAL SPEECHES BEFORE THANKING THEIR MOTHER AND EVERYONE UNDER THE SUN, MOON AND STARS.

THUS, only the people in Hollywood are AWARE OF THE 21 EXECS. And why is this? Because when the OSCAR WINNERS are driving to the bank they notice the NAMES of the 21 EXECS signed in little scrawling letters in the lower right hand corners of the checks. Do you see? These 21 EXECS are too busy signing CHECKS to go up on a stage and receive an OSCAR.

Besides that: The Academy does not give out OSCARS for signing checks. Thus the 21 EXECS don’t get an Oscar for that reason either. The Academy only gives out Oscars to people who are directors, producers, actors, writers, editors, art directors, sound editors, directors of photography or costume designers . . . NOT CHECK SIGNERS. Get it? Thus THE 21 EXECS ARE NOT FAMOUS.

The CHECK SIGNERS, a.k.a., THE 21 EXECS, are the TOP EXECUTIVES of the 7 MPAA studios and they work in the offices. They are the EMPLOYORS of 85% of the people that DO get up and receive OSCARS and who DO become FAMOUS. THE 21 EXECS PAY OTHER PEOPLE TO BE FAMOUS. IN FACT, THEY MANFACTURE FAMOUS PEOPLE. This is their JOB. They manufacture famous people and then sell them to the public. Get it? Are you with me so far?

LET ME SUMMARIZE:

The top three executives that MANAGE and CONTROL the 7 MPAA studios, the 21 EXECS, are the ONES HAT SIGN THE CHECKS. They do not ACT, DIRECT, WRITE or EDIT. These checks are for $30,000,000; $40,000,000; $50,000,000; $60,000,000; $100,000,000. These checks ultimately PAY everyone in Hollywood their FEES and WAGES and SALARIES and PROFIT PARTICIPATIONS and ROYALTIES. 85% of this money comes from the 21 EXECS. This is known as the "CONTROL GROUP" of Hollywood. Remember that term, CONTROL GROUP, because you will hear it often. Some authors call it THE CLUB, other authors call it the DOMINATING MINORITY. John and I call it simply THE CONTROL GROUP.

Now bear that in mind because the VERY next thing I am going to try to relate to you is VERY IMPORTANT to get. Ready?

THE CONTROL GROUP = MOSTLY POLITICALLY LIBERAL, NOT-VERY-RELIGIOUS, WHITE, JEWISH MALES OF EUROPEAN HERATAGE.

Did you get that? That’s a fact. Like F=ma or E=mc^2 or the sky is up and the ground is down.

Again:

THE CONTROL GROUP = MOSTLY POLITICALLY LIBERAL, NOT-VERY-RELIGIOUS, WHITE, JEWISH MALES OF EUROPEAN HERATAGE.

Now I realize that this might sound like a WILD ASSURTION. I though it was a wild assertion the first time John Cones said that to me. So I asked John for the names, backgrounds and source references to BACK UP this assertion. And he gave this to me. The names of each of the 21 EXECS who have held the top positions at the 7 MPAA studios for the past 90 years. The CONTROL GROUP for the past 90 years. Their names and demographic characteristics. And now you can see this for your very self. Just go to http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/control.htm#execlist and READ.

But before you go, bear this in mind, we posted this on the Internet about 6 years ago. Wouldn’t you think that if this was false information, we would have been asked to correct it or take it down by now? Well in fact we DID have one wife of a studio executive on the list, a wife of one of the 21 EXECS, call me and let me know that her husband WAS Jewish, would I please correct that. So I did. Now the list is there in an improved state for you to READ. . .

Re(1): Diversity at Hollywood Studios
Posted on April 24, 2004 at 11:45:51 PM by jason

Who cares, why do u care, just be a good strong worker and ull do well

Re(1): Diversity at Hollywood Studios
Posted on April 22, 2004 at 04:19:48 PM by Katrina R

This whole line of conversation only serves to prove the obvious. It's not what you know. It's who you know. I was totally unaware that this type of "segregation" was a factor in Hollywood. I am a new and struggling screenwriter, though I don't seem to be struggling as much as my peers. I began writing movie scripts in September and have had four shorts for anthology films purchased in those few months. Thanks to the independents. I may have to rethink my latest feature, in that it deals with the end of days, and numerous references to the Bible's Book of Revelation. Hmmm...

There isn't a mild lack of diverstity in Hollywood. From what I gather, there is NO diversity. The real question is what can we do about it - those of us who are not Jewish males. I fear the answer is; not much. Perhaps some legal action bringing this problem to the attention of the courts of our country might at least let the public know what is happening here. Then again, could the independent producer really stand his ground against a force with backing of hundreds of million - even billions of dollars? Probably not. I find these statistics very disturbing, and it is time for a change.

Re(2): Diversity at Hollywood Studios
Posted on April 22, 2004 at 04:39:48 PM by Mitchell Levine

I may have to rethink my latest feature, in that it deals with the end of days, and numerous references to the Bible's Book of Revelation. Hmmm...

- Actually, the reason you should rethink the concept is because it's already been done, as in 1999's End of Days, as well as literally dozens of other films based on the premises of Revelations, including The Seventh Sign, The Omen trilogy, The Devil's Advocate, The Prophecy series, etc., etc.

There isn't a mild lack of diversity in Hollywood. From what I gather, there is NO diversity. The real question is what can we do about it - those of us who are not Jewish males. I fear the answer is; not much.

- That's pretty silly: just open any copy of Variety or The Hollywood Reporter, and you'll find scores and scores of Gentiles of all types working in the business.

In fact, virtually all major development executives are female, both Jewish and non-Jewish. You would have a much better chance of getting a job in that aspect of production than I would.

Cones and Jaeger are only claiming that the very most senior positions in the MPAA studio/distributors are "dominated" by Jewish males, and don't bother trying to argue that there aren't many, many non-Jews working in the business as producers and executives on lower levels.

Then again, could the independent producer really stand his ground against a force with backing of hundreds of million - even billions of dollars? Probably not.

- Tell that to the producers of The Blair Witch Project, or even The Passion, for that matter.

Re(1): Diversity at Hollywood Studios
Posted on April 19, 2004 at 09:49:35 AM by Mitchell Levine

Thus, 7 companies preempt most of the cash flow possible in the U.S. market place. You say, this is the way capitalism works. I say not so fast, read on, these pictures aren’t necessarily the most ORIGINAL or ENTERTAINING pictures. Thus FREE ENTERPRISE CAPITALISM is NOT at work in the movie biz.

- Jim, that's ridiculous: the public chooses what pictures it considers most "entertaining," and rewards the studios by purchasing tickets. THAT'S the way free market capitalism is SUPPOSED to work.

Choosing what pictures get to be financed by a public ballot determining what's most "entertaining" is NOT free market capitalism.

Diversity at Hollywood Studios Cont.
Posted on April 18, 2004 at 10:16:34 PM by James Jaeger

. . . So now that you’re back from looking at the names in the CONTROL GROUP, take a breath.

Let’s now talk about what you wrote above when you wrote: "So what's your argument? There's a lack of diversity in holywood?"

I’m sure if you have read and followed what I have written to this point you can see that this is NOT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. We are NOT talking about a "lack of diversity in HOLLYWOOD," we are talking about a lack of diversity IN THE TOP THREE POSITIONS AT THE SEVEN MPAA STUDIO DISTRIBUTORS. We are talking about a lack of diversity in the CONTROL GROUP. The 21 EXECS.

Get it? All of HOLLYWOOD is DIFFERENT from 21 EXECS. We are not interested in all of Hollywood, because all of Hollywood is a FUNCTION of the 21 EXECS. Get it? The CONTROL GROUP.

I don’t care about how many Jewish directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Christian directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Arab directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Black directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Female directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Hispanic directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Asian directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Scientology directors IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Muslin directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Atheist directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Male directors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.

I don’t care about how many Jewish actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Christian actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Arab actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Black actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Female actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Hispanic actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Asian actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Scientology actors are there IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Muslin actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Atheist actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.
I don’t care about how many Male actors there are IN HOLLYWOOD.

Get it?

ALL I care about, and all my partner, John W. Cones, Esq., cares about is:

HOW MANY LIBERAL, SECULAR JEWISH MALES OF EUROPEAN HERITAGE ARE THERE IN THE TOP THREE (3) POSITIONS OF THE SEVEN (7) MPAA STUDIO/DISTRIBUTORS. The 21 EXECS. THE CONTROL GROUP.

Get it?

That’s all we care about. Diversity at the TOP. Diversity in the CONTROL GROUP.

And why do we care about this?

Do we care about it because:

Liberals are evil?
Secularists are evil?
JEWS are evil?
Males are evil?
Europeans are evil?

NO. WE DON’T CARE IF LIBERAL, NOT VERY RELIGIOUS JEWISH MALES OF EUROPEAN HERITAGE ARE EVIL. Don’t care a hoot. They may be evil, they may not be evil. This is not our concern.

Get it?

We care about the demographic of the CONTROL GROUP because it’s almost all the same. 70 – 80% of the CONTROL GROUP is:

LIBERAL
SECULAR
JEWISH
MALE
EUROPEAN HERITAGE

Get it? They are mostly ALL IDENTICAL. There’s NO diversity in the CONTROL GROUP.

Get it?

Let’s say the CONTROL GROUP was made up of CONSERVATIVE, RELIGIOUS, BAPTIST, BLACK WOMEN OF AFRICAN HERITAGE. In other words the 21 EXECS were CONSERVATIVE, RELIGIOUS, BAPTIST, BLACK WOMEN OF AFRICAN HERITAGE. Would we have diversity? No. Would we have a problem? Yes.

Get it?

Let’s say the CONTROL GROUP was made up of BORN AGAIN, WHITE CHRISTIAN MALES WHO LIKED TO PLAY GOLF IN THE RAIN. In other words the 21 EXECS were BORN AGAIN, WHITE CHRISTIAN MALES WHO LIKED TO PLAY GOLF IN THE RAIN. Would we have diversity? No. Would we have a problem? Yes.

Get it.

So are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has Jews? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has liberals? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has males? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has females? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has conservatives? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has secularists? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has Christians? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has Blacks? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has Golfers? No.
Are we pissed that the CONTROL GROUP has Whites? No.

We are not pissed over any one (1) of these demographics.

WE ARE PISSED OVER THE COLLECTION OF THE SAME DEMOGRAPHIC IN ALL OF THE MAJOR STUDIOS. It’s the AGGRAGATE effect of the DEMOGRAPHIC that LOCKS in the LACK of diversity.

Get it?

So your assertion that this is all about Jews is silly and paranoid.

Do you get that?

To try and shut me up because you think I hate Jews is silly and paranoid. Get that?

But this is EXACTLY what the CONTROL GROUP is HOPING you WILL DO.

And herein lies the REASON this has gone on for 90-some years. Everyone else, except ME and JOHN CONES has been SHUT UP.


Okay, so about this time the next USUAL question we get, for the 1,000th time over the past 6 years (we founded FIRM on March 15, 1998, See Mission Statement at http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/fmission.htm ) is this:

"WELL SO WHAT?"

"So what if the studios are all run by liberal white Jewish males?" Then the justifiers come out: "They were there first." "They started the business." Yap, yap, yap. No one has any original thought on this.

HERE’S WHAT:

We care that the CONTROL GROUP is a narrowly defined demographic because it has certain artistic tastes and preferences that arise as AN EMERGENT PROPERTY.

Don’t YOU have certain artistic tastes and preferences?

Well the CONTROL GROUP does too. It has similar TASTES and PREFERENCES.

Since people TEND to PUT their MONEY into things that they LIKE, and these people in the CONTROL GROUP all tend to have similar TASTES and PREFERENCES – the will tend to finance only those movies that they LIKE.

Hey, are you with me on this?! People tend to finance that which THEY LIKE. NOTE: There is no mention that these people are EVIL. There is no mention that these people are EVIL JEWS AND THEY FINANCE WHAT THEY LIKE BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWISH. Note: There is nothing here that says BECAUSE PEOPLE FINACE WHAT THEY LIKE THEY MUST BE EVIL JEWS. Or that they act as they do BECAUSE THE ARE JEWS. There is NONE of this. All John Cones and I are saying is this:

PEOPLE (note I didn’t say JEWS), LIKE TO FINANCE WHAT THEY LIKE.

THUS, IF you agree that PEOPLE (whether they are nice or evil, Jewish or not) LIKE TO FINACE WHAT THEY LIKE – IF you agree with this then Great, you agree with one of the PRIMARY tenets of THE FILM INDUSTRY REFORM MOVEMENT (FIRM) at http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM

So, if PEOPLE are out there financing movies that they like, and this has been going on for 90 years, there must be an awful lot of movies out there THAT REFLECT THEIR FINACIERS’ LIKINGS. In other words, THERE MUST BE AN AWFUL LOT OF MOVIES OUT THERE THAT REFLEC THEIR MAKERS.

Is this a leap of logic that is too great? That:
MOVIES TEND TO REFLECT THEIR MAKERS TASTES AND PREFERENCES?

Because if this isn’t too big of an assumption, congratulations, you agree with FIRM’S primary tenet as phrased in a slightly different way:

THAT MOVIES TEND TO REFLECT THEIR MAKERS.

Now, have I said anything about the idea that the makers are EVIL?
Have I said or implied that because many of the MAKERS happen to be Jewish they and what they MAKE are EVIL? No I have not.

All John and I are saying is that MOVIES REFLECT THEIR MAKERS. This is a fundamentally NEUTRAL STATEMENT. Period.

But here’s where it gets REALLY tricky, so you are going to have to pay some more attention:

Is it okay, in a democratic society, where the free flow of ideas is our very life blood, for ANY CONTROL GROUP, to be MAKING movies that reflect JUST what THEY LIKE to the exclusion of all others? Is this okay?

Read how John poses this very important consideration that all Americans should be concerned with at http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/amdebate.htm and at http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/disdain.htm

Sorry to be condescending in this post, but I was literally forced to be this way as I know of no other way to let you know that WHITE is WHITE and BLACK is BLACK and UP is UP and DOWN is DOWN.

James Jaeger

Re(1): Diversity at Hollywood Studios Cont.
Posted on April 19, 2004 at 10:01:59 AM by Mitchell Levine

Since people TEND to PUT their MONEY into things that they LIKE, and these people in the CONTROL GROUP all tend to have similar TASTES and PREFERENCES – the will tend to finance only those movies that they LIKE.

- Sorry, Jim, but they're not financing films so they can watch them; they're financing them because they can sell tickets to an audience that wishes to see them.

Is that the prevailing factor in every case? Of course not. But that's the predominant criterion. It's pretty unlikely that the guys in the "control group" really enjoy pictures by and about extreme sports heroes and Billboard pop stars.

It doesn't matter who's in control of Hollywood, those basic dynamics won't change much.

Does that mean there shouldn't be diversity in Hollywood? Absolutely not, but it's rather naive to think that changing the demographics of the studio heads is going to radically alter their release line-up, producing the spate of antisemitic films you apparently want to see.

Re(2): Diversity at Hollywood Studios Cont.
Posted on April 20, 2004 at 03:13:28 AM by Mel Gibson

Levine, you're full of it.

Re(3): Diversity at Hollywood Studios Cont.
Posted on April 20, 2004 at 05:57:29 AM by Mitchell Levine

Jenks, you damn coward, sign your own name to your lies and act like a man - for once in your life.

Re(4): Diversity at Hollywood Studios Cont.
Posted on April 20, 2004 at 11:30:24 PM by Bruce Willis

I agree with Mel, except I would add you're an idiot!

Re(5): Diversity at Hollywood Studios Cont.
Posted on April 21, 2004 at 12:08:44 PM by Mitchell Levine

Add whatever you want, shmuck, but it doesn't make you any less of a coward to name-call anonymously when you're obviously incapable of defeating superior arguments.

Re(6): Diversity at Hollywood Studios Cont.
Posted on April 24, 2004 at 04:26:29 PM by Mel Gibson

Hey man he left his name.

Re(7): Diversity at Hollywood Studios Cont.
Posted on April 24, 2004 at 09:19:11 PM by Mitchell Levine

Hey man - it's a bogus pseudonym: his name is Jenks, and his site just had to shut down due to a lack of funds caused by his lack of charismatic leadership and general stupidity.

 

 

Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 19, 2004 at 02:13:58 AM by James Jaeger

For those of you who may have any doubts that it is a dangerous thing for a filmmaker to try and tell his story in Hollywood without the OKAY of the liberal, secular Jewish elites that dominate the studios and the media, check out this compilation of attacks on Mel Gibson prepared by the Catholic League.

http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/slurs.htm

James Jaeger

Re(1): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 19, 2004 at 10:13:21 AM by Mitchell Levine

Jim, criticizing The Passion doesn't automatically make someone anti-Christian any more than criticizing Israel makes them anti-Jewish.

There were many legitimate reasons to criticize the film, and they don't necessarily amount to being an attack on Christianity.

It was exceedingly insensitive and insulting, even though that doesn't appear to have been Mel Gibson's intent, and those critics had every right to say so if they felt that way.

If the Jews aren't beyond criticism, then neither is the film, and if the former aren't supposed to be wielding the "Antisemitic Sword," then you shouldn't be swinging the anti-Christian one.

Re(2): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 22, 2004 at 01:20:04 PM by George Shelps


by Mitchell Levine

Jim, criticizing The Passion doesn't automatically make someone anti-Christian any more than criticizing Israel makes them anti-Jewish.

There were many legitimate reasons to criticize the film, and they don't necessarily amount to being an attack on Christianity.

It was exceedingly insensitive and insulting, even though that doesn't appear to have been Mel Gibson's intent, and those critics had every right to say so if they felt that way.

___I haven't yet seen the film, but I will say that the tone and content of some of attacks on it do smack of an attack on the Gospels themselves.

But some of the strongest attacks are not coming from "the secular media" or
from Jewish sources...they're coming from Christian commentators.

For example, in the current issue of the
regular publication of the Episcopal Diocese of New York there are two major
slams at the film on theological grounds. (This is the denomination which Mr Jaeger and I both belong to!)





If the Jews aren't beyond criticism, then neither is the film, and if the former aren't supposed to be wielding the "Antisemitic Sword," then you shouldn't be swinging the anti-Christian one.

---Yes, that is exactly what Mr Jaeger is doing.

Re(3): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 22, 2004 at 02:36:59 PM by Mitchell Levine

The New Testament isn't a "script," and often just simply mentions events summarily without giving complete details about what all the characters do and say. And that's not even mentioning the fact that the individual Gospels contradict each other at various points.

That being the case, any individual interpretation of the narratives - and especially one that supports Mel's controversial traditionalist Catholicism - is going to provoke dissent. There are even some Christian sects that feel that God should never be represented on a screen

I don't have any problem with his desire to tell the story the way the Bible does, even the antisemitic strain; I just think it's dishonest of him to deflect criticism of the offensiveness of some of the material by throwing himself on Scripture, when in reality, the film is full of things that never happen in the Bible.

Nothing in the biblical narratives forced him to depict Satan as what appears to be an Orthodox Jewish female (shaving her head and wearing wigs, for example).

I don't think that kind of criticism is anti-Christian, because it's only about Gibson's artistic choices in his movie, not Christianity itself.

Re(4): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 22, 2004 at 08:55:12 PM by George Shelps

Nothing in the biblical narratives forced him to depict Satan as what appears to be an Orthodox Jewish female (shaving her head and wearing wigs, for example).


___Mtchell, I have to say that that connection is a stretch. The clips I have seen depict Satan androgynously--because Satan has no gender.

Re(5): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 22, 2004 at 10:40:34 PM by Mitchell Levine

At the very end of the film, after the culmination of the Passion, Satan - whom earlier had been shown carrying a deformed AntiChrist baby through the crowd standing before Pilate - screams in the depths of Tartarus, and throws off a wig revealing a shaved head, a style typically associated with Orthodox women.

Every Orthodox Jew I know (Ok, that's actually two) mentioned this.

Re(6): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 23, 2004 at 01:16:20 AM by George Shelps


by Mitchell Levine

At the very end of the film, after the culmination of the Passion, Satan - whom earlier had been shown carrying a deformed AntiChrist baby through the crowd standing before Pilate - screams in the depths of Tartarus, and throws off a wig revealing a shaved head, a style typically associated with Orthodox women. Every Orthodox Jew I know (Ok, that's actually two) mentioned this.

___Really, Mitchell... How many non-Jews even KNOW this about Orthodox Jewish women? If it was intended as
a swipe at Jews, it certainly went over
the heads of 99.99% of the audience.

Of course, it was intended as no such thing.

Extrapolations like that give Jaeger and
Cones credibility.

The movie was made by a man passionate
about his faith---a faith that has ALWAYS offended people of other faiths with it claim to universal truth.

Gibson simply didn't make the usual Sunday School paegant movie about Jesus and that's what offends non-believers.

S

Re(7): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 23, 2004 at 10:22:02 AM by Mitchell Levine

Not having seen Sunday school paegent movies about Jesus, I can't really say.

I enjoy films about the Gospels, so I'm certainly not motivated to criticize the movie out of any kind of anti-Christian bias.

As far as Satan's wig goes, your argument could easily be turned around: if it really is such an obscure detail, it seems like quite an unusual coincidence that it would turn up randomly in this context.

It turns out that the theme comes directly from (the highly antisemitic) Anne Catherine Emmerich's account in The Dolorous Passion, and Mel might not have been aware of the significance.

That can't be said about the scene where Iscariot is provoked into hanging himself by Jewish children that morph into demons. I suppose that could be read as symbolizing his guilt over the centuries of persecution that his betrayal led to - but I'm not claiming that Mel intended to advance antisemitic ideas.

What I'm saying is that his artistic choices were exceedingly insensitive in a way that I'm sure would be highly offensive to him if it had been directed at his faith.

Even a complete moron should have realized that the bit where hook noses are used as the focus of a lap dissolve between scenes was not a good idea under the circumstances.

Re(8): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 23, 2004 at 03:01:22 PM by George Shelps


by Mitchell Levine


As far as Satan's wig goes, your argument could easily be turned around: if it really is such an obscure detail, it seems like quite an unusual coincidence that it would turn up randomly in this context.

___It expresses the idea that Satan
has no gender. From what I have seen
innthe clips, this is a valid interpolation---for Satan is everywhere.
*He actually does appear earlier in the Gospels to tempt Jesus.)



It turns out that the theme comes directly from (the highly antisemitic) Anne Catherine Emmerich's account in The Dolorous Passion, and Mel might not have been aware of the significance.

_____Did Gibson film her book? This is a huge red herring--repeated over and over.

That can't be said about the scene where Iscariot is provoked into hanging himself by Jewish children

__What other children lived in Israel
at the time?



that morph into demons. I suppose that could be read as symbolizing his guilt over the centuries of persecution that his betrayal led to - but I'm not claiming that Mel intended to advance antisemitic ideas.

What I'm saying is that his artistic choices were exceedingly insensitive in a way that I'm sure would be highly offensive to him if it had been directed at his faith.

___Any forthright movie about the Gospels is going to offend someone...Christians claim that Jesus was God in human form...that offends many faiths and secularists as well.


Even a complete moron should have realized that the bit where hook noses are used as the focus of a lap dissolve between scenes was not a good idea under the circumstances.

____Now he can't even cut a shot where
he wants to cut a shot!

It almost seems as if "talking points" about this movie are being circulated.

All the detractors are making the same
tired points.
R

Re(9): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 24, 2004 at 02:08:24 AM by Mitchell Levine

Did Gibson film her book? This is a huge red herring--repeated over and over.

- George, he's repeatedly acknowledged taking many details in the film directly from her account - in fact, he claims it's nothing less than an act of spirit that the book itself dropped into his hands after he tripped in a library one day.

My point was that he apparently took that element right from her exposition of her visions, and was quite possibly unaware of it's subtext.

What other children lived in Israel
at the time?

- Where in the New Testament do children morph into demons, let alone Hebrew-prayer-reciting, yarmulke-wearing ones?

Any forthright movie about the Gospels is going to offend someone...Christians claim that Jesus was God in human form...that offends many faiths and secularists as well.

- The offensive elements that I'm complaining about AREN'T taken from the Gospels. I wouldn't criticize him for dramatizing the scriptural narratives verbatim; he chose to inject his own additions, many of which were in highly bad taste.

Of course, he has the right to exhibit bad taste if wants to, but that doesn't mean the material isn't offensive in that regard, or that critics aren't justified for their mixed feelings about it.

Now he can't even cut a shot where
he wants to cut a shot!

- He CAN cut a shot where he wants to cut a shot! That doesn't mean it wasn't ridiculously insensitive of him to feature a jump cut from the big hook noses of one evil Jewish character to another.

Anyone with a functional level of sensitivity to other people's feelings would have instantly realized how that would be perceived (it's the biggest physical negative stereotype there is), just like anyone except Howard Cosell would have known not to refer to Marcus Allen as "that little monkey" after making a limber catch.

All the detractors are making the same
tired points.

- Just like people are always making the tired point about Birth of a Nation starring the Klu Klux Klan as heroes.

People don't really need to knock themselves out to find new and different reasons to feel offended by the movie.

Re(10): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 24, 2004 at 11:55:39 AM by George Shelps


by Mitchell Levine

Did Gibson film her book? This is a huge red herring--repeated over and over.

- George, he's repeatedly acknowledged taking many details in the film directly from her account - in fact, he claims it's nothing less than an act of spirit that the book itself dropped into his hands after he tripped in a library one day.

___Using details does not constitute
an adaptation of her book.

My point was that he apparently took that element right from her exposition of her visions, and was quite possibly unaware of it's subtext.

+++Then he can't be held responsible
for her context. It sounds like his inention was entirely different.



What other children lived in Israel
at the time?

- Where in the New Testament do children morph into demons, let alone Hebrew-prayer-reciting, yarmulke-wearing ones?

___This is not the New Testament, it is
a damatization of the last hours of Jesus...there are many stories about
Jesus which are not in the Gospels..for example, the "Three Wise Men." No
number was mentioned, nor their names, in the Gospel, yet Zeffirelli identifies b name in JESUS OF NAZARETH, and of them
(Balthasar) plays a prominent role in BEN HUR.



Any forthright movie about the Gospels is going to offend someone...Christians claim that Jesus was God in human form...that offends many faiths and secularists as well.

- The offensive elements that I'm complaining about AREN'T taken from the Gospels. I wouldn't criticize him for dramatizing the scriptural narratives verbatim; he chose to inject his own additions, many of which were in highly bad taste.

___He "chose to inject" his own vision because he is the artist who made the film...that's his job.

He
He was making a movie about the last hours of the life of Christ, not an illustration of the Gospels for a Sunday School lesson...the crucifixion was an abomination...indeed, Jesus is quoted as saying, "The Prince of this world approaches," ie Satan. Gibson has an
artistic obligation to dramatize the reality of this evil force.

Of course, he has the right to exhibit bad taste if wants to, but that doesn't mean the material isn't offensive in that regard, or that critics aren't justified for their mixed feelings about it it.

___I doubt their sincerity. I regard most of their comments as form of cultural politics.

Now he can't even cut a shot where
he wants to cut a shot!

- He CAN cut a shot where he wants to cut a shot! That doesn't mean it wasn't ridiculously insensitive of him to feature a jump cut from the big hook noses of one evil Jewish character to another.

___Well, I still haven't seen the film (I will this weekend) and I will take
note of this shot.

Anyone with a functional level of sensitivity to other people's feelings would have instantly realized how that would be perceived (it's the biggest physical negative stereotype there is), just like anyone except Howard Cosell would have known not to refer to Marcus Allen as "that little monkey" after making a limber catch.

___How can you compare the yammering of a sportscaster with the serious artistic purpose of Gibson? I'm sure Gibson considered that the effect would be misinterpreted, but as an artist, he should do as his conscience dictates.






All the detractors are making the same
tired points.

- Just like people are always making the tired point about Birth of a Nation starring the Klu Klux Klan as heroes.
People don't really need to knock themselves out to find new and different reasons to feel offended by the movie.


___And how many "retail" viewers of the film know about Emmerich? This point is transmitted and re-transmitted by the
media writers...like a political talking point.

People can be offended about anything they like, but I think they're mainly offended by the power of Gibson's vision
of Christ...most films about Jesus are bland and pageant-like.

And how you can drag the in the KKK as a cross-reference to a movie about Christ astounds me.

Re(11): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 24, 2004 at 02:07:42 PM by Mitchell Levine

Then he can't be held responsible
for her context. It sounds like his inention was entirely different.


- Right, that's what I was saying. It's possible that may be the case.

This is not the New Testament, it is
a damatization of the last hours of Jesus...there are many stories about
Jesus which are not in the Gospels..for example, the "Three Wise Men." No
number was mentioned, nor their names, in the Gospel, yet Zeffirelli identifies b name in JESUS OF NAZARETH, and of them
(Balthasar) plays a prominent role in BEN HUR.

- True, but Gibson used his claim that the film was a historically and scripturally accurate portrayal of the events to deflect criticism.

The reality was that he took numerous liberties with the Gospels when he felt like it, and it's disingenuous for him to hide behind the Bible under those circumstances.

He "chose to inject" his own vision because he is the artist who made the film...that's his job.

- Of course it's his job: that doesn't mean he shouldn't be held accountable for how he did his job.

I'm NOT saying he should be arrested, censored, or refused the opportunity to work again in the business. I am saying that there are legitimate reasons to criticize the film, and that it's not necessarily an indictment of Christianity as a faith and institution.

Gibson has an
artistic obligation to dramatize the reality of this evil force.

- Very true, but there's lots of ways of doing that without having to play on anti-Jewish stereotypes. Gibson knew well that this was an area of high sensitivity from the minute he got involved.

If I were making a film that touched on seminal issues in Christianity in an oblique way somehow (I personally would leave films directly concerned with Christianity to be made by members of the faith), before I even got started, I'd approach someone like you, ask them to read the script, and say: "I know this has the pontential to be offensive and hurtful, which is certainly something I don't want. Could you tell me what you think? What could I do that would avoid creating bad feelings?"

He didn't have to do that: if you don't care about being insensitive to other peoples' feelings, it's no crime. But you really shouldn't be surprised when they're inevitably fuming and upset with you. You really can't blame anyone but yourself.

I doubt their sincerity. I regard most of their comments as form of cultural politics.

- Any kind of statement about a public event of this magnitude is a form of "cultural politics" in a sense. It doesn't necessarily mean they were trying to denounce Christianity as a whole.

Maybe some were motivated to do that, I can't say, but the point I was making is that are legitimate reasons to criticize the film that don't involve attacking articles of Christian faith, something I wouldn't want to do.

How can you compare the yammering of a sportscaster with the serious artistic purpose of Gibson? I'm sure Gibson considered that the effect would be misinterpreted, but as an artist, he should do as his conscience dictates.

- George, it's just an analogy. The point was that Cosell was, as is well-known, not a racist man. Unfortunately, he had a tendency to talk first and think later, but no one questions that he basically had good intentions.

Any normal person would have known that the remark was inappropriate in that context, as Gibson should have too. There were lots of ways of making his artistic point in a non-offensive way.

If he felt it was the correct creative choice, that's his right, but it hardly means he's therefore entitled to be above criticism for it. Once again, I'm not trying to advocate for any legal or social sanctions to be taken against him. I'm just saying that his film had needlessly offensive elements to it that could have been avoided.

People can be offended about anything they like, but I think they're mainly offended by the power of Gibson's vision
of Christ...most films about Jesus are bland and paegeant-like.

- I don't know about that. I'm a non-Christian and I love movies about Jesus. Even apart from the obvious religious aspects of the Gospels, they simply tell a wonderful, emotionally compelling story that speaks to most artistically sensitive people even if they don't necessarily choose to adopt the religious worldview itself.

My real complaint about the film isn't antisemitism, it's that the script and direction were, in my opinion, clumsy and obvious. If it had been made by a great director, it could have been a lot more powerful. The story itself is SO powerful that even a second-rate version will be moving to people.

Jewish people are used to living as a religious minority, and it doesn't really bother them that more people might decide that the Christian belief system's for them. Religion's not a popularity contest to mature people. If you're really secure in your beliefs, it doesn't matter what other people believe - unless they want to attack you for what you believe.

And how you can drag the in the KKK as a cross-reference to a movie about Christ astonds me.

- The parallel wasn't intended to be between Christ and the KKK (a comparison only they ever draw), it was between what's considered to be a great but flawed artistic masterpiece and Mel Gibson's film.

I apologize if that wasn't clear.

Re(12): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 25, 2004 at 02:22:38 AM by George Shelps


bBY Mitchell Levine
T

This is not the New Testament, it is
a damatization of the last hours of Jesus...there are many stories about
Jesus which are not in the Gospels..for example, the "Three Wise Men." No
number was mentioned, nor their names, in the Gospel, yet Zeffirelli identifies b name in JESUS OF NAZARETH, and of them
(Balthasar) plays a prominent role in BEN HUR.


- True, but Gibson used his claim that the film was a historically and scripturally accurate portrayal of the events to deflect criticism.

___Because it is unfair to single out
a few details and make them stand for the whole film.


The reality was that he took numerous liberties with the Gospels when he felt like it, and it's disingenuous for him to hide behind the Bible under those circumstances.

___I'm sure 90% of the film is derived
from the four Gospels.



He "chose to inject" his own vision because he is the artist who made the film...that's his job.


- Of course it's his job: that doesn't mean he shouldn't be held accountable for how he did his job.

___Of course, but the criticism has
been aimed all in one area...I've read
very little about the artistic values. The reviewers seem obsessed with attacking his motives.

I'm NOT saying he should be arrested, censored, or refused the opportunity to work again in the business. I am saying that there are legitimate reasons to criticize the film, and that it's not necessarily an indictment of Christianity as a faith and institution.

--The reasons I have read--including yours here----don't seem legitimate to me but are going beyond what is intended and reading your own views into the film.
Gibson has an
artistic obligation to dramatize the reality of this evil force.

- Very true, but there's lots of ways of doing that without having to play on anti-Jewish stereotypes. Gibson knew well that this was an area of high sensitivity from the minute he got involved.

__I disagree that the use of facial
features to denote character or feelings is a form of stereotyping...it has been
part of the movies since the silent era...Eisenstein called it 'typage.

The Sanhedrin acted in an unjust manner
and Gibson (apparently) wanted to depict
their posture in the form of a visual-facial metaphor...nothing directed at Jews, per se...have you ever seen the Sanhedrin in JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR? Very villainous and menacing in black robes...or Anthony Quinn in
JESUS OF NAZARETH...in his best dark style?


If I were making a film that touched on seminal issues in Christianity in an oblique way somehow (I personally would leave films directly concerned with Christianity to be made by members of the faith), before I even got started, I'd approach someone like you, ask them to read the script, and say: "I know this has the pontential to be offensive and hurtful, which is certainly something I don't want. Could you tell me what you think? What could I do that would avoid creating bad feelings?"

__Not the job of the artist, only the
entertainer and clearly this is not a popcorn movie,



He didn't have to do that: if you don't care about being insensitive to other peoples' feelings, it's no crime. But you really shouldn't be surprised when they're inevitably fuming and upset with you. You really can't blame anyone but yourself.

____The fuming was irrational and unjustified.




How can you compare the yammering of a sportscaster with the serious artistic purpose of Gibson?


I'm sure Gibson considered that the effect would be misinterpreted, but as an artist, he should do as his conscience dictates.

- George, it's just an analogy. The point was that Cosell was, as is well-known, not a racist man.

Unfortunately, he had a tendency to talk first and think later, but no one questions that he basically had good intentions.

Any normal person would have known that the remark was inappropriate in that context, as Gibson should have too.

___You can't compare a sporstcaster with
a film-maker whose intent is clearly to
make a work of art.



There were lots of ways of making his artistic point in a non-offensive way.

If he felt it was the correct creative choice, that's his right, but it hardly means he's therefore entitled to be above criticism for it.

__i think he's entitled to rational
criticism, not the raging attacks about his motives and character.



Once again, I'm not trying to advocate for any legal or social sanctions to be taken against him. I'm just saying that his film had needlessly offensive elements to it that could have been avoided.

___That is not within the realm of artistic expression. The artist can't worry about "offending" people. This is
not SINGIN' IN THE RAIN.
expression.

People can be offended about anything they like, but I think they're mainly offended by the power of Gibson's vision
of Christ...most films about Jesus are bland and paegeant-like.

- I don't know about that. I'm a non-Christian and I love movies about Jesus. Even apart from the obvious religious aspects of the Gospels, they simply tell a wonderful, emotionally compelling story that speaks to most artistically sensitive people even if they don't necessarily choose to adopt the religious worldview itself.

___Yes, but Jesus said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." Gibson's movie (which I will see tomorrow) sounds like the first movie about Jesus to present this aspect to the public...an angry passionate work of art.

My real complaint about the film isn't antisemitism, it's that the script and direction were, in my opinion, clumsy and obvious. If it had been made by a great director, it could have been a lot more powerful. The story itself is SO powerful that even a second-rate version will be moving to people.

___Well, that at least deals with the film as a film. I regard all the comments concerning the "anti-semitism"
in the film to be absolutely bogus.

\\\\\

Re(13): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 25, 2004 at 01:20:05 PM by Mitchell Levine

Because it is unfair to single out
a few details and make them stand for the whole film.

- Like they say, the devil's in the details. If it's true for The Passion, it should be true for all films with derogatory stereotypes.

Very few of them were made specifically to denigrate an outgroup. You could argue that all of those elements were insignificant relative to whatever artistic plusses were there.

I'm sure 90% of the film is derived
from the four Gospels.

- As I've already said, I'm only discussing the elective 10%. That's what Gibson himself is responsible for.

I wouldn't begrudge him for portraying the Gospels as they're written, even if I'm not happy with all of their contents.

Of course, but the criticism has
been aimed all in one area...I've read
very little about the artistic values. The reviewers seem obsessed with attacking his motives.

- I'm not attacking his motives: I'm criticizing his sense of good taste.

The reasons I have read--including yours here----don't seem legitimate to me but are going beyond what is intended and reading your own views into the film.

- My point isn't that Gibson intended to make a work of antisemitic rabble-rousing, it's that the choices he made were insulting, insensitive, and, if they had been applied to any other ethnic group, would've been used as a demonstration of Hollywood's typical disdain for minorities.

On the other hand, I can understand and respect your desire to defend your faith and artistic expression at the same time, even if I don't necessarily agree with your conclusions.

_I disagree that the use of facial
features to denote character or feelings is a form of stereotyping...it has been
part of the movies since the silent era...Eisenstein called it 'typage.

Using big hook noses to symbolize evil is not "typage," it's a moronically insensitive instance of stereotyping, particularly when it goes so far as to be a central focus in shot design.

No adult living in contemporary society could possibly not be aware of this.

i think he's entitled to rational
criticism, not the raging attacks about his motives and character.

- Granted, but that's how people with hurt feelings act, and he knew it. Imagine what would happen if Dreamworks released a film version of Corpus Christi, or, later this summer, when Monty Python's The Life of Brian, is re-released. William Donohue would make Foxman look like a cigar-store Indian by comparison.

(Note: I'm not implying that The Passion is as intentionally offensive as those two films are/would be).

That is not within the realm of artistic expression. The artist can't worry about "offending" people. This is
not SINGIN' IN THE RAIN.
expression.

- That could be used to justify anything. Also, it's a real stretch to proclaim Mel Gibson a serious "artist."

Yes, but Jesus said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." Gibson's movie (which I will see tomorrow) sounds like the first movie about Jesus to present this aspect to the public...an angry passionate work of art.

- Passionate, maybe, but not really angry - actually, Scorsese's depiction brings out that side much more dramatically (despite William DaFoe's overacting). In most cases, Jesus in The Passion is superhumanly beatific.

At least, unlike Zefferelli's version, in Gibson's film, he's allowed to blink. That ceaseless stare is tough to take over an entire mini-series.

Well, that at least deals with the film as a film. I regard all the comments concerning the "anti-semitism"
in the film to be absolutely bogus.

- That's easy to say, George, when it's not directed at you.

Re(14): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 25, 2004 at 04:16:10 PM by George Shelps


by Mitchell Levine

Because it is unfair to single out
a few details and make them stand for the whole film.

- Like they say, the devil's in the details. If it's true for The Passion, it should be true for all films with derogatory stereotypes.

____Usually, stereotyping---such as found in BIRTH OF A NATION or in communist epics like POTEMKIN betray an artistic weakness, too. What artistic flaw is connected to the alleged stereotyping in PASSION?

Very few of them were made specifically to denigrate an outgroup.

__That's your projection.



You could argue that all of those elements were insignificant relative to whatever artistic plusses were there.

___Do you argue that they contradict the
rest of the film as well?


I'm sure 90% of the film is derived
from the four Gospels.

- As I've already said, I'm only discussing the elective 10%. That's what Gibson himself is responsible for.

)___But it's false and unfair to take
a small slice of the film out of the context of the rest of the film. You also have to show how this 10% doesn't
fit in with the rest of the film.



I wouldn't begrudge him for portraying the Gospels as they're written, even if I'm not happy with all of their contents.

_)__You're not? What part of the Gospels are you unhappy with?



Of course, but the criticism has
been aimed all in one area...I've read
very little about the artistic values. The reviewers seem obsessed with attacking his motives.

- I'm not attacking his motives: I'm criticizing his sense of good taste.

The reasons I have read--including yours here----don't seem legitimate to me but are going beyond what is intended and reading your own views into the film.

- My point isn't that Gibson intended to make a work of antisemitic

rabble-rousing, it's that the choices, he made were insulting, insensitive, and, if they had been applied to any other ethnic group, would've been used as a demonstration of Hollywood's typical disdain for minorities.

____You've picked out a few shots and
use them to make a broad-brush case...

On the other hand, I can understand and respect your desire to defend your faith and artistic expression at the same time, even if I don't necessarily agree with your conclusions.

__I am not defending my faith, I am outraged at the blatantly unfair attacks
on Mel Gibson for making a movie that millions of decent people clearly admire. These attacks give credibility to the Cones-Jaeger viewpoint.

_I disagree that the use of facial
features to denote character or feelings is a form of stereotyping...it has been
part of the movies since the silent era...Eisenstein called it 'typage.

Using big hook noses to symbolize evil is not "typage,"

_)__Oh, come on! You're the one engaging in projection here. Strongly-etched features have always been used to make visual points in movies, especially about negative characters. You have to show a
consistent attempt to visually stereotype Jews in the film and you haven't done that. Jesus was a Jew, Mary was, Peter was, etc etc.



it's a moronically insensitive instance of stereotyping, particularly when it goes so far as to be a central focus in shot design.

__How many shots?




No adult living in contemporary society could possibly not be aware of this.

___But if he didn't INTEND that reaction, then he's not responsible for
the feelings of everyone who reads
it into the film.


i think he's entitled to rational
criticism, not the raging attacks about his motives and character.

- Granted, but that's how people with hurt feelings act, and he knew it.

___No good work of art ever failed to offend someone.




That is not within the realm of artistic expression. The artist can't worry about "offending" people. This is
not SINGIN' IN THE RAIN.

- That could be used to justify anything. Also, it's a real stretch to proclaim Mel Gibson a serious "artist."

___I think he is. Not a great one, but
a serious one.




Well, that at least deals with the film as a film. I regard all the comments concerning the "anti-semitism"

in the film to be absolutely bogus.
- That's easy to say, George, when it's not directed at you.

___Much of the criticism is blatantly anti-Christian and, to my mind, directed
at me.

Re(15): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 25, 2004 at 06:32:45 PM by Mitchell Levine

Very few of them were made specifically to denigrate an outgroup.

__That's your projection.

- You misunderstand my point: I'm not saying that The Passion WAS made specifically to denigrate an outgroup: I'm saying that most other films containing such stereotypes also WEREN'T intended to do that as a primary goal either, and you could also make the same argument about them. In other words, that's path on which madness lies.

Do you argue that they contradict the
rest of the film as well?

- No, I'm saying that you could use the same arguments to excuse any kind of ethnic stereotyping in film at all.

But it's false and unfair to take
a small slice of the film out of the context of the rest of the film. You also have to show how this 10% doesn't
fit in with the rest of the film.

- What's exceptional about that 10% is that it doesn't come from the actual stories told by the apostles, so Gibson can't fall back on the argument that he was simply dramatizing scripture by including it.

You're not? What part of the Gospels are you unhappy with?

- i.e,, "the devil is your father, and as he is the father of lies, lies are your natural language," etc.

You've picked out a few shots and
use them to make a broad-brush case...

- Let me try to elaborate on this, because I might not have made it clear before (or maybe you weren't following the site when I said this earlier):

I don't believe that Mel Gibson is an antisemite, at least as I define the word, and not, say, Abe Foxman. I work for a production company that knows him well, and, although I haven't made his acquaintance, the (mostly Jewish) people who work with me agree that they don't believe he is one. They feel he's just not a diplomat.

Also, I don't believe Mel made the film with the intent in mind to harm Jews. Therefore, I say the film isn't antisemitic, because I feel that word should be reserved for things that expressly have that intent, like, say, Jenks' thankfully defunct site.

However, it's very clear to almost every Jew that sees the movie that it contains many things like those I've already mentioned which are in exceedingly bad taste.

Whether you and I like it or not, this is an area of extremely high sensitivity in the Jewish community, because, fairly or unfairly, this narrative's (mis)interpretation has historically led to centuries of persecution, torture, terror, etc.

Does that mean Mel shouldn't retell it? Of course not. I understand that its central to many people's whole spiritual lives. No one's happier for Christendom than me that they have the opportunity to have their beliefs reaffirmed in a communal way during this era of global fear and uncertainty.

But to understand all of this, and know full well what the effects on people's lives and still fill the movie unnecessarily with images like big hook noses used as the focus of screen transitions, Jewish children wearing yarmulkes transforming into demons, Satan not only walking among the Jews while they contrive to murder God, but also showing hallmarks of Orthodox Jewish females, and so on, is just exceedingly insensitive. The movie could have been just as faithful to the biblical story, successful at the box office, and powerful to its audience without this material.

Maybe this isn't intuitive for you, and you have to be a member of the ethnic community to understand it. While I don't mean to draw a comparison between the two movies as film or narratives, it really would have been possible to make Mandingo in a way that would have been faithful to history and the novel that wouldn't make Black people cringe when they watch it.

If Mel didn't wish to do that, it's his right, if he felt that it was the artistically correct thing to do. But you can't expect people to like it say so, or that they won't say so. To mention any of this doesn't constitute anti-Christianity - I'm not trying to deny the validity of the Christian religion by saying it, or the character of people that share the faith. That's why I'm pointing out the fact that none of these elements appear in scripture. If they did, I wouldn't say anything about it.

Oh, come on! You're the one engaging in projection here. Strongly-etched features have always been used to make visual points in movies, especially about negative characters. You have to show a
consistent attempt to visually stereotype Jews in the film and you haven't done that. Jesus was a Jew, Mary was, Peter was, etc etc.


- Hook noses are THE most classic antisemitic physical stereotype there is, George. Everyone,including you, knows that. No antisemitic literature anywhere fails to avoid using it as a slur, and the whole idea sets Jewish people's teeth on edge, including me, even though I don't have one.

Using them as the focal point of a transition between scenes in the context of the Passion narrative, thus bringing them to the forefront of the viewers attention, is incredibly bad taste and hurtful to a community that suffered for thousands of years because of misinterpretations of this story. It's just not a nice or smart thing to do, whether or not that's the intent.

Imagine if other minority groups iconic physical traits had been used in a similar way in Roots or The Deer Hunter.

But if he didn't INTEND that reaction, then he's not responsible for
the feelings of everyone who reads

- Unless he was a complete idiot, which I doubt is the case, he would certainly be aware of this. He obviously chose to do it anyway. That's what's referred to as "insensitivity to other people's feelings."

No good work of art ever failed to offend someone.

- True, but that doesn't mean a good work of art has to be unnecessarily offensive and hurtful.


I think he is. Not a great one, but
a serious one.

- Maybe, it depends how you define it: as I see it, "artist" is a gift title, like "poet" or "philosopher." Personally, I wouldn't make that gift to Mel.

Much of the criticism is blatantly anti-Christian and, to my mind, directed
at me.

- I haven't heard anyone say that this film demonstrates that Christians are bad people or that their religion is evil. Everyone seems to think that it's representative of Mel Gibson, and not Christianity as whole (at least that I know).

I find it hard to belief that anyone would have complained about the movie if the elements I've discussed had been avoided. No one would have been in an uproar simply because the film proclaims Christ as the messiah, any more than they did with Jesus of Nazareth.

Usually, stereotyping---such as found in BIRTH OF A NATION or in communist epics like POTEMKIN betray an artistic weakness, too. What artistic flaw is connected to the alleged stereotyping in PASSION?

- That they marred with antagonism and bitter divisiveness what could have simply been an inspirational cultural event badly needed in uncertain times.

Re(16): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 25, 2004 at 11:16:33 PM by George Shelps

by Mitchell Levine

Very few of them were made specifically to denigrate an outgroup.

__That's your projection.

- You misunderstand my point: I'm not saying that The Passion WAS made specifically to denigrate an outgroup: I'm saying that most other films containing such stereotypes also WEREN'T intended to do that as a primary goal either, and you could also make the same argument about them. In other words, that's path on which madness lies.

____I don't believe you can lump this
film with others in this way. You have
to take it case-by-case.



Do you argue that they contradict the
rest of the film as well?
-


You're not? What part of the Gospels are you unhappy with?


- i.e,, "the devil is your father, and as he is the father of lies, lies are your natural language," etc.

___He was referring to the specific people he was addressing.



You've picked out a few shots and
use them to make a broad-brush case...
-

Let me try to elaborate on this,
because I might not have made it clear before (or maybe you weren't following the site when I said this earlier):

I don't believe that Mel Gibson is an antisemite, at least as I define the word, and not, say, Abe Foxman. I work for a production company that knows him well, and, although I haven't made his acquaintance, the (mostly Jewish) people who work with me agree that they don't believe he is one. They feel he's just not a diplomat.

__I'm sure he's relieved to hear that...

Also, I don't believe Mel made the film with the intent in mind to harm Jews. Therefore, I say the film isn't antisemitic, because I feel that word should be reserved for things that expressly have that intent, like, say, Jenks' thankfully defunct site.

___It is defunct? I pray it stays that way!



However, it's very clear to almost every Jew that sees the movie that it contains many things like those I've already mentioned which are in exceedingly bad taste.

__Don't agree...I saw the movie tonight,
and my main criticism is that the second
half is slowed down by repetition of the
same idea of Christ's suffering...yet, I think, overall, it is a major effort, worthy of respect. The first half is
beautifully done...especially the use
of Aramaic..and "street Latin." I partiularly liked that Peter is called "Lefa" or "Cepha," which is Aramaic for
"Rocky." His real name was Simon and "Peter" is actually derived from the Greek word for "rock," Petros.

The one line in Latin that stood out for me was Pilate's wife saying, "Sanctus
est," for "He is holy,"

Whether you and I like it or not, this is an area of extremely high sensitivity in the Jewish community, because, fairly or unfairly, this narrative's (mis)interpretation has historically led to centuries of persecution, torture, terror, etc.

___I know that...but still, you don't tell other people to change the details of their faith to suit another faith's sensitivities..

Does that mean Mel shouldn't retell it? Of course not. I understand that its central to many people's whole spiritual lives. No one's happier for Christendom than me that they have the opportunity to have their beliefs reaffirmed in a communal way during this era of global fear and uncertainty.

But to understand all of this, and know full well what the effects on people's lives and still fill the movie unnecessarily with images like big hook noses used as the focus of screen transitions, Jewish children wearing yarmulkes transforming into demons, Satan not only walking among the Jews while they contrive to murder God, but also showing hallmarks of Orthodox Jewish females, and so on, is just exceedingly insensitive. The movie could have been just as faithful to the biblical story, successful at the box office, and powerful to its audience without this material.


___I saw the film tonight and you are,
in my opinion, way out of line with all
these points...the "children" scene, I thought, was a brilliant note, to dramatize Judas's sense of shame.

Maybe this isn't intuitive for you, and you have to be a member of the ethnic community to understand it. While I don't mean to draw a comparison between the two movies as film or narratives, it really would have been possible to make Mandingo in a way that would have been faithful to history and the novel that wouldn't make Black people cringe when they watch it.


If Mel didn't wish to do that, it's his right, if he felt that it was the artistically correct thing to do. But you can't expect people to like it say so, or that they won't say so. To mention any of this doesn't constitute anti-Christianity - I'm not trying to deny the validity of the Christian religion by saying it, or the character of people that share the faith. That's why I'm pointing out the fact that none of these elements appear in scripture. If they did, I wouldn't say anything about it.

-_At the end of the Gospel of John, the
writer specifically states that Jesus did so much that all the books in the
world couldn't hold the information...the Gospels are sketchy
at times...we can fill with our own
extrapolations--as can Mel Gibson.

Oh, come on! You're the one engaging in projection here. Strongly-etched features have always been used to make visual points in movies, especially about negative characters. You have to show a
consistent attempt to visually stereotype Jews in the film and you haven't done that. Jesus was a Jew, Mary was, Peter was, etc etc.

- Hook noses are THE most classic antisemitic physical stereotype there is, George. Everyone,including you, knows that. No antisemitic literature anywhere fails to avoid using it as a slur, and the whole idea sets Jewish people's teeth on edge, including me, even though I don't have one.

__Uh, I just saw the film tonight...there are two close-ups of
Peter that show his "semitic" nose, too.
I think you're projecting...these were
Middle Eastern people, after all...and
many of the Romans had "Mediterranean"
features, too in the film.



Using them as the focal point of a transition between scenes in the context of the Passion narrative, thus bringing them to the forefront of the viewers attention, is incredibly bad taste and hurtful to a community that suffered for thousands of years because of misinterpretations of this story. It's just not a nice or smart thing to do, whether or not that's the intent.
Imagine if other minority groups iconic physical traits had been used in a similar way in Roots or The Deer Hunter.
But if he didn't INTEND that reaction, then he's not responsible for
the feelings of everyone who reads

- Unless he was a complete idiot, which I doubt is the case, he would certainly be aware of this. He obviously chose to do it anyway. That's what's referred to as "insensitivity to other people's feelings."

___That "sensitivity" issue can be
overdone..it's the basis of campus
political correctness for example.


No

Much of the criticism is blatantly anti-Christian and, to my mind, directed at me.

- I haven't heard anyone say that this film demonstrates that Christians are bad people or that their religion is evil. Everyone seems to think that it's representative of Mel Gibson, and not Christianity as whole (at least that I know).

___Well, the old saw about how the early Christians wanted to slam the Jews and igratiate themselves with the Romans---by portraying Pilate "sympathetically" was dragged out by
many critics--including Schmuley Boteach.

I find it hard to belief that anyone would have complained about the movie if the elements I've discussed had been avoided. No one would have been in an uproar simply because the film proclaims Christ as the messiah, any more than they did with Jesus of Nazareth.

___Because JESUS OF NAZARETH was in the standard "paegant" style and this movie
is hyper-realistic.


Usually, stereotyping---such as found in BIRTH OF A NATION or in communist epics like POTEMKIN betray an artistic weakness, too. What artistic flaw is connected to the alleged stereotyping in PASSION?

- That they marred with antagonism and bitter divisiveness what could have simply been an inspirational cultural event badly needed in uncertain times.

___Jesus is always going to be a divisive issue, he said he was.

Having finally seen the film---I waited until I was in a frame of mind to accept
the rigors of the story---I must reaffirm the idea that all the criticisms you make are not supported the film and are projections of your own often-justified fears about prejudice.

Re(17): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 26, 2004 at 02:12:46 AM by Mitchell Levine

I don't believe you can lump this
film with others in this way. You have
to take it case-by-case.

- Basically true, but your argument is generic.

He was referring to the specific people he was addressing.

- Unfortunately, it wasn't interpreted that way: it WAS addressed to "the Jews." The Pharisees were the precursors to modern rabbis.

It is defunct? I pray it stays that way!

- You and me both, man. I'm sure Evil Scumbag will resurface in some form. Without that outlet, his personality disorder will force the issue.

The first half is
beautifully done...especially the use
of Aramaic..and "street Latin."

- Only problem being that it was the wrong dialect of Aramaic, and that Romans in Palestine would have spoken Coptic Greek.

Of course, Mr. Gibson isn't an archeologist.

I do feel Jim Cavieziel should be given props for his performance, as should Monica Belluci, and whomever the actor that played Pilate was - although I still like David Bowie better in the role.

I know that...but still, you don't tell other people to change the details of their faith to suit another faith's sensitivities..

- No one's asking you to do that - the points I mentioned were all Gibson's inventions and nothing mentioned in Scripture. As I said, if he just stuck to what was narrated in the Bible, I wouldn't have any problems with it, despite my mixed feelings about some portions of it. It kind of lacks credibility to claim that you shouldn't be blamed for the content of your film because it's just a representation of the Bible, when you've changed up everything you care to.

I'm kind of curious that more people haven't mentioned the reassigning of Matthew 27:25 to Caiphas.

At the end of the Gospel of John, the
writer specifically states that Jesus did so much that all the books in the
world couldn't hold the information...the Gospels are sketchy
at times...we can fill with our own
extrapolations--as can Mel Gibson.

- You could use the same argument to validate The Last Temptation (which I recent saw on Bravo, and thought was over-rated) also, or, for that matter, just about anything else.

Uh, I just saw the film tonight...there are two close-ups of
Peter that show his "semitic" nose, too.
I think you're projecting...these were
Middle Eastern people, after all...and
many of the Romans had "Mediterranean"
features, too in the film.

- The "hook nose" thing is present in people who come from Eastern Europe (or are of "Armenoid" ancestry), and it wouldn't have been a characteristic of 1st Century Gallilean Jews.

That "sensitivity" issue can be
overdone..it's the basis of campus
political correctness for example.

- No one seems to argue this point when it's their social group being demeaned.

Well, the old saw about how the early Christians wanted to slam the Jews and igratiate themselves with the Romans---by portraying Pilate "sympathetically" was dragged out by
many critics--including Schmuley Boteach.

- I don't personally care for Shmuely, but most historians believe he's correct on that point.

Of course, the only real "proof" they have of it is conjecture based on intuition about human nature, and the fact that Josepheus doesn't say a word about it, and paints a completely different portrait of him in The Jewish Wars.

On the other side of the aisle, it was interesting to see how many "edgy" Jews came forward to relate the myth that the Talmud accepts responsibility for deicide, an interpretation that would be laughed out of any Yeshiva.

Jesus is always going to be a divisive issue, he said he was.

- I don't think this is really what he had in mind: It would be the content of his message that he would want to be the focus of contention, I would think, and not the questionable taste of the means in which it was presented. I don't recall anyone saying they didn't like the movie because they thought Christianity was an unacceptable religion.

Why do you think the Arab countries are falling all over themselves for it? Because they believe in Christian doctrine? They like it because they think it's anti-Jewish.

Maybe the best thing to do is just try and put it all behind us. Besides, with the elections coming up in November, it's not like we're going to run out of things to argue about.

Re(18): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 26, 2004 at 05:17:46 AM by George Shelps

At the end of the Gospel of John, the
writer specifically states that Jesus did so much that all the books in the
world couldn't hold the information...the Gospels are sketchy
at times...we can fill with our own
extrapolations--as can Mel Gibson.
- You could use the same argument to validate The Last Temptation (which I recent saw on Bravo, and thought was over-rated) also, or, for that matter, just about anything else.

___I am not saying Mel's additions are ipso facto valid, but he has been attacked because they are "extra Biblical" and the last passage in John
makes it clear that the Gospels contain
varely a fraction of the story of Jesus--so Gibson has an NT justification to extrapolate.

The only question is whether his extrapolations contradict the rest of
the Gospels--and I think they do not.

I found nothing in this film that could be deemed anti-semitic, either
vy intention or by accident of "bad taste." It is an entirely admirable and artistically effective work...the first
half had me thinking it was also a great
film...but the scenes of suffering in the second part of the film accumulate without developing new dimensions of meaning....nevertheless, I found a most
moving scene in the second section of the film: where Mary sees Jesus fall
on the "Via Dolorosa" and she has a mental flashback to a fall he took as a young child...with Mary both times offering motherly comfort...powerful,
moving stuff...one of the best parts about the film was this portrayal of a mother witnessing her son's tragic
suffering.

Alll in all, after having Googled the harsh criticism this movie has engendered, I am really appalled at the excess of vitriol directed at this very
respectable and serious-minded film.

Re(19): Secular Media Attacks THE PASSION
Posted on April 26, 2004 at 01:07:12 PM by George Shelps

An addendum:

Here is an excerpt from Carrie Rickey's
review of the film from the Phila. Inquirer. I think it gives a balanced and succinct response to the charges
pf anti-semitism:

""I am a Jew. Going into The Passion, I worried that it might rekindle anti-Semitism by recycling discredited interpretations of the Hebrew high priests' roles in the crucifixion. While the film does trade in such imagery, for me, it makes a larger point about how those in charge of a faith can compromise or betray it, a charge that can be made not only of the Hebrew Pharisees but of those in the contemporary Catholic Church who protected priests accused of sexual abuse"

 

A Brief History
Posted on April 19, 2004 at 10:25:25 AM by John Cones

A Brief History of the Hollywood-Based U.S. Film Industry

By John W. Cones, J.D.

The U.S. Supreme Court stated in its 1952 decision of Burstyn v. Wilson that the motion picture is a powerful medium for the communication of ideas. As we all know, ideas influence many of the attitudes and much of the behavior of human beings. Therefore, motion pictures influence human behavior. Since our democracy is based on the concept of a free marketplace of ideas, it is extremely important that this very powerful medium for the communication of ideas be open and accessible to all interests within our multi-cultural society. If all such interests in our society do not have fair access and opportunities to tell their important stories (i.e., communicate their ideas) through a powerful communication medium like film, our democracy is severely weakened.

To the extent that any particular group controls or dominates the U.S. film industry and repeatedly uses that industry to promote the ideas that such a group favors as opposed to the ideas of other groups, that film industry control group would actually be using the film industry for its own propaganda purposes. Studies have shown that Hollywood movies contain patterns of bias, that is, the constant repetition of certain ideas and/or themes (see "Patterns of Bias in Motion Picture Content"). Thus, if access to this powerful communication medium is controlled by any narrowly-defined group, it is certainly using this medium for its own propaganda purposes and doing irreparable harm to our democracy.

Studies have further demonstrated that movies tend, to a large extent, to mirror the interests, values, cultural perspectives and prejudices of their makers. So, then the question comes down to: "Who are the people in Hollywood who have the power to determine which movies are produced and released for viewing by the vast majority of U.S. citizens and others around the world?" Studies show that it’s the top three studio executives at the so-called vertically-integrated Hollywood major studio/distributors (see "Who Really Controls Hollywood"). These same studies demonstrate that somewhere between 70% to 80% of these top three studio executives for the first 90 years of the life of the Hollywood based U.S. film industry all share a similar background, and that background can most accurately be described as "politically liberal, not very religious, Jewish males of European heritage". And there is little evidence to suggest that the makeup of this Hollywood control group has changed significantly since that study was done back in the early ‘90s. Consequently, it is fair to conclude that for the nearly 100 year history of the Hollywood motion picture industry, all other groups including African-Americans, Latinos, Women, Native Americans, Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, political conservatives and the very religious Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormons and others forth have been regularly and routinely excluded from these positions of power to the detriment of their members, since this powerful medium for the communication of ideas has not been as available for communicating the ideas of their choosing.

Now, it may be fair to ask, how could this happen in a free market economy? The answer lies in the exhaustive list of unfair, unethical, unconscionable, anti-competitive, predatory and illegal business practices regularly and routinely engaged in by these major studio/distributors during this same 100 year period (see "354 Business Practices of the Major Studio/Distributors"), including the extraordinary power and influence these companies have been able to exercise over our government during that same period. It’s all really a rather remarkable story.

John Cones

Filmmaker/Ethnic activist
Posted on May 1, 2004 at 11:43:30 AM by LAX

Spielberg to direct Munich Olympics film
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 Posted: 3:25 PM EDT (1925 GMT)
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) --

Filmmaker Steven Spielberg, who won his first Oscar for the Holocaust drama "Schindler's List," has taken on another tragic moment in modern Jewish history as his next project -- the 1972 Munich Olympics.

Spielberg plans to start production in June and is eyeing actor Ben Kingsley for a role in the upcoming drama, which will chronicle the Summer Games marred by the kidnapping and slaying of Israeli athletes by Palestinian militants, a DreamWorks studio spokeswoman said Wednesday.
In all, 11 Israelis lost their lives in the bloody 1972 tragedy, including nine hostages killed in a botched rescue attempt at a military air base outside Munich, all while Olympics officials carried on with the competition. Five of the gunmen and a German policeman also died. Three of the militants were captured alive.

The specter of the massacre 32 years ago has haunted authorities in Greece preparing security for the upcoming Summer Olympics in Athens amid heightened concerns of potential attacks by extremists linked to the al Qaeda terror network.

Details of the as-yet-untitled film have been kept shrouded in secrecy as Spielberg pins down European locations for the production, the studio spokeswoman said.

She said the screenplay will be written by Eric Roth, who won an Oscar for his "Forrest Gump" script and was nominated for "The Insider." The film is to be released domestically by Universal Pictures, a unit of Vivendi Universal , and overseen by Spielberg's home studio, DreamWorks SKG. No release date has been set.

It was not clear what role Kingsley might take. He previously co-starred in "Schindler's List," which earned Spielberg Academy Awards for best picture and best director. Spielberg won his second directing Oscar for the World War II film, "Saving Private Ryan."

The Munich Olympics debacle also was the subject of the Oscar-winning documentary "One Day in September" (2000) as well as the 1976 television dramatization, "21 Hours at Munich."

Spielberg was last in theaters with the caper film "Catch Me If You Can" and his next movie, "The Terminal," starring Tom Hanks as a Russian immigrant stranded in a U.S. airport, is due for release in June.

After finishing the Munich Olympics film, Spielberg plans to direct a project titled "The Rivals," followed by a big-screen adaptation of H.G. Wells' alien invasion tale, "War of the Worlds," starring Tom Cruise, Daily Variety reported.


Business as Usual in Hollywood
Posted on May 1, 2004 at 09:10:38 PM by James Jaeger

Here we have yet another film made by a Jewish filmmaker and talent, financed and released by a studio which is dominated by liberal, secular Jewish males and promoting Jewish interests. To wit:

1. Spielberg, Jewish talent, to direct;

2. Ben Kingsley, Jewish actor to star;

3. written by Eric Roth, Jewish writer;

4. to be released "domestically by Universal Pictures," an MPAA studio dominated by politically liberal, not very religious Jewish males of European heritage;

5. about "another tragic moment in modern Jewish history," a Jewish story concerning yet another way Jewish people have been victimized;

6. about the "kidnapping and slaying of Israeli athletes by Palestinian militants," yet another film that is politically in support of Israel and which depicts Palestinians as the bad guys (when not depicting Arabs as the bad guys in other films).

While Spielberg instantly gets financing, stars, distribution, elite media support and acceptance to tell HIS story, Mel Gibson has to reach into his pocket to tell his story and, after doing so, is savagely attacked by the media as being an anti-Semitic, insensitive, bigot.

Ho hum, looks like business as usual in good old Hollywood!

James Jaeger

Correction
Posted on May 2, 2004 at 10:46:27 PM by James Jaeger

I'd like to make a correction to my post: Ben Kingsley is India Indian who is a born again Christian.

Nevertheless, the point of my post remains intact.

James Jaeger

Re(1): Correction
Posted on May 2, 2004 at 11:09:11 PM by isle

Kingsley had a partly Jewish grandparent-not a partly Jewish great-grandparent. It appears Kingsley has embraced his Jewish roots based on the roles he has chosen.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=6870

Kingsley, née Krishna Bhanji, is the son of an Indian physician and a British fashion model who was born illegitimate and was loath to speak of her parentage. Nevertheless, Kingsley said, he learned that one of her parents was of Russian and Jewish ancestry.

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/16114/edition_id/315/format/html/displaystory.html
Shoah dramas continue to compel actor Ben Kingsley

L.A. Jewish Journal

Kingsley, born Krishna Bhanji, is the son of an Indian physician and an English fashion model whose parentage was partly Russian Jewish. Born out-of-wedlock, his mother was loath to speak of her background.

The actor did not learn of the Shoah until he saw a Holocaust-themed documentary that placed him in a state of "deep, physical shock," he said. Kingsley was only 9, but he knew that someday he "wanted to help articulate that chorus of pain."

When a Pole made a threatening, anti-Semitic gesture to a fellow actor, Kingsley lunged at the man. "When I left Krakow, I felt like a refugee, because that kind of work displaces the psyche," he said.

Yet the Shoah continued to influence the roles he felt compelled to accept. Kingsley starred in the TNT movies "Moses" and "Joseph" to explore the parallel between ancient and modern anti-Semitism. His understanding of shtetl oppression influenced his Oscar-nominated performance as Jewish gangster Meyer Lansky in "Bugsy."

But when the call came to play Otto Frank last year, the actor was reluctant. He was tired of playing victims. "But I carefully read the script and saw that the Franks were presented as a very cultured, successful middle-class family -- not victims by any stretch of the imagination," he said. "It is clear that they became victims. That is an important distinction."

Kingsley busied himself by watching BBC tapes of Otto Frank. But one obstacle remained: the controversy that was plaguing the ABC mini-series, based on Melissa Muller's 1998 biography, " Anne Frank."

The book and the mini-series refer to five pages Otto censored from the published diary, which criticize the Franks' strained marriage. When Spielberg withdrew from the project over the conflict, there was concern that Kingsley might follow suit. However, the two men met at a dinner, Kingsley told the Los Angeles Times, and Spielberg "gave me a big hug and said, 'I'm so glad you're playing Otto.'"

Re(1): Business as Usual in Hollywood
Posted on May 2, 2004 at 03:03:42 PM by Mitchell Levine

2. Ben Kingsley, Jewish actor to star;

- Once again, Ben Kingsley has one Jewish great-grandparent, and his birth name was Krishna Bahnji. That doesn't make him "Jewish" by anyone's standards.

about "another tragic moment in modern Jewish history," a Jewish story concerning yet another way Jewish people have been victimized;

- Since you've placed this phrase in quotes, are we supposed to understand this as your denial that the incident at the Olympics of '72 WAS tragic? That's awfully callous of you.

And it's hardly just a "Jewish" story: it took place at the international Olympic games.

about the "kidnapping and slaying of Israeli athletes by Palestinian militants," yet another film that is politically in support of Israel and which depicts Palestinians as the bad guys (when not depicting Arabs as the bad guys in other films).

- Jim, what are you talking about? "Yet another film politically in support of Israel?" The last pro-Israeli film that got released was Raid on Entebbe, and that was almost thirty years ago. Even Black Sunday gave room for some anti-Israeli rants by its female co-lead and portrayed the Mossad agent as devious.

In this particular case, Arabs WERE the bad guys, and that's just a matter of simple historical record. You still haven't answered my question: why is it OK for Gibson to make his film, and not for Spielberg to make his?

Because you think the public should see Christ being murdered by Jews, but a true story about Israelis being murdered by terrorists is "prejudicial?" Because you're afraid if there's too much social sympathy for Jews, ZOG will take over the country and destroy Christianity?

While Spielberg instantly gets financing, stars, distribution, elite media support and acceptance to tell HIS story, Mel Gibson has to reach into his pocket to tell his story and, after doing so, is savagely attacked by the media as being an anti-Semitic, insensitive, bigot.

- 1. There's no evidence that Spielberg is being "bigoted" by telling the story. It's entirely fact-based, if the pre-production publicity is correct.

2. Mel got his film produced and successfully released, so what are you complaining about? It's just been demonstrated that Hollywood participation isn't necessarily mandatory for successful distribution.

It sounds to me like you're worried that Spielberg's film might make more money than The Passion.

Re(2): Business as Usual in Hollywood
Posted on May 2, 2004 at 10:51:42 PM by James Jaeger

>- Since you've placed this phrase in quotes, are we supposed to understand this as your denial that the incident at the Olympics of '72 WAS tragic? That's awfully callous of you.

No. It's in quotes because I was QUOTING it.

James Jaeger

"Control group" slip-up??
Posted on May 4, 2004 at 10:36:33 PM by George Shelps

VVDisney Forbidding Distribution of Film That Criticizes Bush
By JIM RUTENBERG

ASHINGTON, May 4 — The Walt Disney Company is blocking its Miramax division from distributing a new documentary by Michael Moore that harshly criticizes President Bush, executives at both Disney and Miramax said Tuesday.
The film, "Fahrenheit 911," links Mr. Bush and prominent Saudis — including the family of Osama bin Laden — and criticizes Mr. Bush's actions before and after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Disney, which bought Miramax more than a decade ago, has a contractual agreement with the Miramax principals, Bob and Harvey Weinstein, allowing it to prevent the company from distributing films under certain circumstances, like an excessive budget or an NC-17 rating

Online Movies
Posted on May 6, 2004 at 01:19:55 PM by Stan Nugit

You are a visionary, James http://www.mecfilms.com/mid

Best,
Stanley Nugit, CPA


"HOLLYWOOD'S VISION OF ONLINE

Jack Valenti says the idea that Hollywood is full of Luddites is "foolish." In an interview with the Hollywood Reporter, the president of the Motion Picture Association of America said, "There are many terrifically smart people in the movie business who have vision and know where the industry is going." One place is the Internet, he said. The California Institute of Technology has FAST http://netlab.caltech.edu/FAST/), "where a movie can be downloaded in five seconds," Valenti said. "That's the stuff that will be in the marketplace in 18 months to two years." He predicted consumers will eventually be able to choose from "thousands and thousands of movies for download ... at(their) choice of time and genre, that is available at a price set by the consumer, not the distributor. That's the grand strategy."

Re(1): Online Movies
Posted on May 6, 2004 at 09:09:59 PM by George Shelps

You are a visionary, James http://www.mecfilms.com/mid
Best,

____Actually, the idea stemmed from an article I read in the "New York Times Magazine" about the potential of the
internet as a medium for the distribution of films. This was the mid-90s.

I phoned James and told him about it. He was enthusiastic and eventually launched Matrix Internet Distribution
(MID) and worked out the details of the bsiness model.

Movies Communicate Ideas
Posted on May 7, 2004 at 10:12:30 AM by John Cones

In the UCLA Chicano Studies
Research Center May 2004 Newsletter

Director's Message:
The billboard on Cahuenga Blvd. was simple and direct: "On May 14 there will be no Mexicans in California." Was this a dream come true for anti-immigration advocates? Or was it a jolt to the numerous industries and families that rely upon Mexican labor? In either case, because of complaints, the
billboard was removed within hours of being installed. Welcome to Hollywood. The billboard announced Sergio
Arau’s new film A Day Without a Mexican, which opens on May 14 on fifty screens across Southern California,
followed by a national rollout. This mockumentary examines the devastating impact of the sudden and unexplained disappearance of one-third of California’s population: Mexicans. The film calls for acknowledging
that Latinos -- and Mexicans, in particular -- have been the key to the California Dream. It is a well-
timed morality tale for the state as it grapples with budget cuts, cuts that are having a disproportionate
impact on the Latino community.

Moore Censorship
Posted on May 7, 2004 at 10:18:24 AM by John Cones

The day after Michael Moore complains that he is being censored by Disney, Hollywood apologists fanned out in the media to offer their narrow definition of the word. They regularly claim that only government can censor. Of course, that's a self-serving and overly-narrow definiton fallacy, since such a word can be used in several ways, including in the phrase "government censorship". This orchestrated attempt at manipulating the opinions of the American public is so blatant as to be embarrassing.

John Cones

Re(1): Moore Censorship
Posted on May 7, 2004 at 02:57:15 PM by George Shelps


John Cones

The day after Michael Moore complains that he is being censored by Disney, Hollywood apologists fanned out in the media to offer their narrow definition of the word. They regularly claim that only government can censor. Of course, that's a self-serving and overly-narrow definiton fallacy, since such a word can be used in several ways, including in the phrase "government censorship".

__Censorship has to be unilateral and conducted by an official body. Refusing to distribute a movie is not censorship.


This orchestrated attempt at manipulating the opinions of the American public is so blatant as to be embarrassing.

___Attempts to manipulate the opinion of the public is not censorship. Opinion
can be manipulated in many different
directions at the same time,

Actually, John. this blows your "control
group" hypothesis to pieces, since a liberal control group would be anti-Bush
and would not refuse to distribute a fellow leftist's film that attacked a conservative President.
J

Re(2): Moore Censorship
Posted on May 7, 2004 at 03:31:20 PM by Mitchell Levine

The point isn't that the word "censorship" can't be used in different ways to refer to different types of suppression - it's that the type of "censorship" forbidden by the Constitution is the governmental type.

Michael Moore can't complain that his First Amendment rights have been violated simply because Disney won't distribute his film, unless there were evidence that it wasn't happening due to Bush's direct or indirect demand - which even Moore isn't claiming.

If Eisner doesn't want his house to release it, he's well within his rights; it's not like he's insisting that the print be destroyed.

It seems to me that both John and Jim muddy the waters by seemingly implying that events like Disney's refusal to carry Farenheit 911 or Fox The Passion are denials of legitimate rights.

 

Hollywood's antisemitic stereotypes
Posted on May 9, 2004 at 03:42:22 AM by Berel Dov Lerner

I am disgusted at the way Hollywood has traditionally portrayed Jews as a bunch of neurotic, unsexy, ineffectual "nebbishes". White, black, and Asian kids all have action-heroes to look up to. Jewish kids are taught by the media to think of themselves as wimps. The very mention of a Jewish name in a context involving physical prowess or courage invites laughter and ridicule. Just recently I saw an episode of "West Wing" in which one of the characters said that if a Jew won a bar-fight, it would be front-page news. Would anyone dare to make a similar joke based on the stereotypical mathematical incompetence of African Americans?

Growing up as a kid in the U.S.A. I had to live with the effects of Hollywood antisemitism. I never heard anyone in my highschool call an African American "nigger" to his face, because even the stupidist biggots knew that that would be asking for trouble. But idiot antisemites who were much smaller and weaker than me felt free to call me "kike" to my face. They were genuinely surprised when I pointed out to them that I could beat the crap out of them and that they should stop insulting me. After all, they had been taught by Hollywood that a Jew will never stand up for himself.

Re(1): Hollywood's antisemitic stereotypes
Posted on May 16, 2004 at 09:03:03 PM by WakeUp

I don't know how I stumbled apon this website. But if I may say a couple of things. I've seen throughout this website people using the word "anti-semitism" erroneously. In fact, Arabs speak a semitic language as well. If you don't like arabs, you are anti-semitic, which is interesting, because many orthodox jewish fundamentalists are anti-semitic themselves.

The reason you won't see any "jewish superheroes" is because jews want to maintain their "victim-status" myth as long as possible. Why not milk a myth for all it's worth? It's excellent marketing. With that myth intact, it acts like a license to badger other ethnic or religious groups, like arabs or muslims or palestinians or Christians.

Just today, I heard in Israel they are tearing down and destroying homes of palestinians. The article didn't post any image with it. I suppose to have done so, would have caused an uproar or flurry from normal folk who are being kept in the dark in North America.

As an aside, Disney did not start out as a jewish company. I read someone else talking about it, as though jews deserve some credit for it; they don't. It's current CEO is now jewish however.

What if huge media companies, radio stations, movie houses, magazines and newspapers were all owned by arab muslims? What would people think? It would seem if you just pose the question, or show curiosity why there is a monopoly of a particular ethnic group owning or managing the majority of our intellectual content or media products, you are labeled intolerant.

This isn't 1930's Germany. Take a look at the socio-economic and political standing of jewish people in America; They are on top. There is nothing wrong with that. But every boss, manager, or authority figure should learn they will always get criticism from people. So to label that as all "hate" is ridiculous and egocentric.

WakeUp

Re(2): Hollywood's antisemitic stereotypes
Posted on May 17, 2004 at 11:42:37 AM by Mitchell Levine

The reason you won't see any "jewish superheroes" is because jews want to maintain their "victim-status" myth as long as possible. Why not milk a myth for all it's worth? It's excellent marketing.

- I see: so, on the one hand, Jews are trying to maintain a "victim myth" - as if it weren't true that they experienced thousands of years of persecution - but are also too noisy about taking pride in their successful and influential members, like Einstein, Salk, Feynnman, Von Neumann, etc. at the same time. Logical.

With that myth intact, it acts like a license to badger other ethnic or religious groups, like arabs or muslims or palestinians or Christians.

- That's just silly: they aren't "badgering" those groups; they're asking not to badgered by them. No one is arbitrarily walking around looking for ways to deprive Christians of any legitimate rights in this constitutional nation.

The Palestinians are a special case, but it's also true that the former didn't respect the Jew's rights either - they are also the native inhabitants of that land, and were there a lot longer than the Palestinians.

That DOES NOT excuse the Israeli's treatment of them in the West Bank, but that hardly means they are arbitrarily "badgering" them.

What if huge media companies, radio stations, movie houses, magazines and newspapers were all owned by arab muslims? What would people think?

- In a free capitalist democracy, why does it matter "what people would think?"

Having to live in a world where there are many successful people that don't share your religion or ethnicity does NOT constitute a form of "oppression."

Take a look at the socio-economic and political standing of jewish people in America; They are on top.

- I am? Thanks for letting me know! Last time I checked, I was lower-middle class at best, but it's good to know I'm actually on top!

You seem to exhibit great difficulty thinking in terms of anything but gross stereotypes.

Re(2): Hollywood's antisemitic stereotypes
Posted on May 17, 2004 at 08:27:40 AM by Berel Dov Lerner

Dear "wake-up", whoever you may be,

You made some interesting points in connection with my message on Hollywood's anti-Semitic stereotypes. It was somewhat disingenuous to mention the destruction of buildings in Gaza along the border with Egypt without any reference to the circumstances in which it is taking place, i.e., Israel's attempts to deal with the constant flow of arms through tunnels from Egypt to Gaza. The danger posed by the unrestricted flow of arms, and the local manufacture of missiles (used against targets in Israel proper) remain the major security challenges impeding Israel's withdrawal from Gaza. Of course, the Palestinian Authority had been bound by the Oslo agreements to deal with such problems itself as part of its more general commitment to collect illegal arms and shut-down the terrorist groups, but the PA has never moved to actually exercise its fundamental sovereignty in Gaza (nor has it ever offered the Palestinian population anything resembling honest and adequate government services). More realistically, Egypt could end the bloodshed and destruction and expedite Israel's withdrawal from Gaza by simply fulfilling its commitments according to the Camp David Accords to stop the arms-smuggling from *it's* side of the border. Apparently, the billions of dollars in US foreign aid that Egypt receives every year is not sufficient incentive for Egypt to close down the tunnels, which would make it safe for Israeli forces to withdraw, thus rescuing the USA led peace-process.

A word on antisemitism. To be perfectly frank: If you want to sound historically informed, don't repeat the silly line invented by the lesser lights of the Arab propaganda machine, "Arabs are Semites too." The term "antisemitism" was specifically invented by nineteenth century Europeans (who couldn't care less about Arabs one way or the other) to describe their hatered for Jews. It has always been used exclusively in that sense, except by Arab propagandists who are trying to blow smoke in your eyes. (Lately, some Arabs have expressed their embarassment over the use of such a cheap rhetorical trick by their comrades).

Here is an analogy that might help you out: Brazil is geographically situated in the Americas, right? So you might say that Brazilians are Americans, right? But would you really be confused if someone said that a certain Brazilian was anti-American? Anti-American means anti-USA, just as anti-Semite means anti-Jewish.

Re(3): Hollywood's antisemitic stereotypes
Posted on May 17, 2004 at 12:59:02 PM by anonymous

The term "antisemitism" was specifically invented by nineteenth century Europeans (who couldn't care less about Arabs one way or the other) to describe their hatered for Jews. It has always been used exclusively in that sense, except by Arab propagandists who are trying to blow smoke in your eyes.

- By journalist Wilhelm Marr, founder of the League of Anti-Semites, the mission statement of which was based on the premise that "Jews, as a race (sic), are evil," and that they should therefore be opposed in any sphere of potential influence.

Hollywood's antisemitic stereotypes
Posted on May 9, 2004 at 09:53:06 PM by Rob

Who's protraying Jews as ineffectual "nebbishes"...Jews or gentiles?

Re(1): Hollywood's antisemitic stereotypes
Posted on May 10, 2004 at 08:35:17 AM by Berel Dov Lerner

What difference does it make whether Jews or Gentiles support this stereotype? I don't think there is any grand conspiracy behind this. African American rappers fuel racism by peddling the obscence notion that all black men are pimps and drug dealers. I don't think that a bunch of black guys got together and asked themselves, "What can we do to reinforce racism in the USA?" The fact that the damage is self-inflicted hardly lessens its negative impact. In any case, as far as I can tell, practically everyone in the USA portrays Jews as wimps. It has become completely internalized by American culture.

Re(2): Hollywood's antisemitic stereotypes
Posted on May 10, 2004 at 09:42:36 AM by Mitchell Levine

Correction: Jews are portrayed as ineffectual "wimps," unless they are:

a) mid-20th century-era gangsters like Meyer Lansky or Benny Siegel, or

b) Israeli soldiers or Mossad agents, or, possibly,

c) other types of conspiratorial criminals, like Dr. Charles Nichols in The Fugitive or Max Shrek in Batman Returns. In films like They Live, the Jews may even be granted quasi-mystical powers to control the world and everything in it.

Also, it's naive to think that, because the studios are run at their highest levels by liberal, not-very-religious, Jewish males of Eastern European extraction, that these stereotypes are therefore "perpetrated" by Jews.

The producer of any particular project may or may not be Jewish, and it's very possible that their overseers might not be looking for such implications. If the problems aren't as blatant as The Passion, then they might very well be overlooked or ignored.

 

Things We Don't Know
Posted on May 11, 2004 at 10:24:12 AM by John Cones

Some of the preceding discussion serves to illustrate one of the limitations of this discussion forum. We don't know whether the name Beral Dov Lerner is the real name of a real person and we don't know whether Mr. Lerner is Jewish. Therefore, when he complains about anti-Semitism in Hollywood movies(or the consistent portrayal of Jewish characters in Hollywood movies in a negative and/or stereotypical manner) we don't really know if his complaint is sincere. However, assuming that he is a real person and his complaint is sincere, it would support the FIRM and U.S. Supreme Court position that the motion picture is a significant medium for the communication of ideas and that ideas communicated through film influence human behavior, otherwise there would be no reason to complain. It also helps to illustrate why the consistent negative and/or stereotypical portrayals of African-Americans, Latinos, women, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Whites from the South, Christians, Muslims, Arabs, etc. as pointed out by FIRM are extremely offensive and dangerous to our society. It hurts, and may influence prejudicial and discriminatory behavior. On the other hand, we have never seen Mr. Lerner agree with us here at FIRM on this point, other than with respect to how such portrayals may be harmful to some persons of Jewish heritage.

Now, to the question also raised as to who is responsible,once again, a natural question to ask, the FIRM position is that the top three studio executives have green light authority, therefore they are ultimately responsible for the content of the movies they greenlight. Others argue that the ideas communicated through film usually originate elsewhere, with the screenwriter, the director, actors, actresses and/or the producers. The latter position is true, but only to a limited degree, because again someone has to authorize the money for these films to be produced and/or released by the major studio/distributors. And, as illustrated recently by Disney's refusal to distribute Michael Moore's film, apparently because of its political content (presumably a negative portrayal of George W. Bush), we see, once again, that such decisions come from the top. If the content of a film is offensive to the top studio executives, for some reason, they are either not produced or not released.

Now, in the case of the Disney film, the apparent offensive point of view is politically liberal, which also illustrates another point. Even though, the top studio executives are generally speaking, politically liberal on most issues, they have often provided support to presidential candidates on both the right and left. In other words, these politically savvy individuals know they want to have that political clout in the White House no matter who serves there.

So, it is important that we step back and look at the big picture. The motion picture is a significant medium for the communication of ideas. Ideas communicated through a powerful mass-communications medium can influence the attitudes, feelings and behavior of millions of people. Therefore, it is important to our society that movies not be allowed to consistently communicate any particular point of view. Since, movies tend, to a large extent, to mirror the values, interests, cultural perspectives and prejudices of their makers ("makers" in this sense being those who ultimately have the power to determine which movies are going to be produced and released)it is extremely important that the backgrounds of these decision-makers generally be more reflective of the overall diversity of our society. Otherwise and inevitably, the people who have the power to use film to communicate messages, will use it to communicate the messages they want, and not the messages that others want to see communicated.

John Cones

Re(1): Things We Don't Know
Posted on May 15, 2004 at 03:21:49 PM by Berel Dov Lerner

Beral Dov Lerner is not a real person - Berel Dov Lerner is! The experiences I mentioned were genuine. I never wrote on this forum before because I only recently became aware of its existence.

Let me say frankly that since I have not lived in the USA for more than 20 years, and I have nothing to do with the film industry, I don't expect to devote any further time to this forum. Nonetheless, here are my parting shots:

If you think that the there should be more ethnic diversity among big film industry executives, then by all means, I as an official member of the International Jewish Conspiracy of Communists, Capitalists, Zionists, Neo-Conservatives, Liberals, and Rootless Cosmopolitans hereby invite all interested Gentiles to take their best shot at succeeding in the film industry.

Actually, I think that "promoting ethnic diversity" is a lousy reason for someone to join the film industry. People should make movies because they love to make movies, because they have something to say, and because they are good at making movies. If you make movies that lots of people will pay to see, you will become rich. If, instead, you waste your time complaining about how the Jews are too sucessful, you will just sound like a bunch of resentful and untalented bigots.

Yes, Jews are strongly repesented in many aspects of American life: medicine, science, law, the film industry, etc. Once upon a time there was another country to which Jews also made outstanding constributions. It was called Germany. At the beginning of the twentieth century, Germany was the scientific and cultural superpower of the world. Then some Germans got the idea in their heads that the Jews had too much influence (i.e., the Jews were contributing too much to German society) and so they got rid of them. As a result, the USA replaced Germany as the world center of scientific and cultural excellence.

I'll see you at the movies.

And one last point
Posted on May 15, 2004 at 05:57:36 PM by Berel Dov Lerner

It wasn't written in the stars that the USA would be home to the most important national film industry in the world. From all the talk about the Jewish domination of Hollywood, I can only conclude that the USA owes a debt of gratitude to those of its Jewish citizens who made Hollywood into the center of the world's film industry, contributing countless jobs and billions of dollars to the American economy, and helping to make the USA the leading cultural power of our times. Who knows? Without all of the Jewish creative energy that went into building Hollywood, the USA could have just as easily remained a backwater of the world's film industry. And then you would have found yourselves complaining about how the French studios won't let you produce English-language films.

Re(1): And one last point
Posted on May 17, 2004 at 10:40:37 AM by John Cones

And, of course, this is exactly the kind of exclusionary thinking that creates the problem. In other words, some would have us believe that the people who claim the credit for creating the Hollywood phenomenon were the only people in the world with the intelligence and skills to have done so. All others are deficient and inferior. Thanks again for helping to make the argument that the highest levels of the Hollywood establishment must be more diverse.

John Cones

"Control Group" drops the ball again
Posted on May 11, 2004 at 07:47:41 PM by George Shelps

That pesky MPAA "control group" has
done it again. First, this liberal
group refuses to distribute Michael Moore's leftwing propaganda and now Fox has announced that they will be distributing the DVD of THE PASSION...somebody better tackle them!

FIRM Changes
Posted on May 12, 2004 at 12:50:39 PM by James Jaeger

Well thanks to the hard work of John Cones and all the good people at FIRM, maybe things are finally changing for the better.

Oh, you forgot to mention that the new CEO of Time-Warner is African American. We at FIRM had to go into Time-Warner headquarters with bats and whistles to get that one through however.

James

 

Don't Think So
Posted on May 18, 2004 at 02:11:30 PM by John Cones

The Hollywood insiders have for about 100 years arbitrarily discriminated against and denied access to hundreds of thousands of talented individuals from diverse backgrounds and refused to allow them to communicate through the powerful communications medium: the feature film by, among other tactics not allowing many of such individuals to become studio executives with the power to greenlight movies. Now some of those who defend Hollywood's arrogance come to this little discussion forum and pretend that they have some sort of right to engage in name-calling, to misrepresent the FIRM position, to continually repeat fallacious arguments and otherwise obscure the truth about Hollywood. Don't think so.

John Cones

Re(1): Don't Think So
Posted on May 19, 2004 at 08:59:25 PM by auslander

This sounds just a little desperate there John. Maybe you could offer a prediction as to what we're in for when things even out in Hollywood? What are we missing?

Organized religion has been the bane of human societies for a long time. Millions have been murdered in the name of all faiths. Wherever death has left its mark, worship of gods or a god is nearby. A discussion devoted to one faith over another is a continuation of the same tired struggle.

What do you hope to gain by the FIRM? If it's a voice, then you've succeeded, albeit in a limited way. If its change, you're much less intelligent than you appear to be.

Re(2): Don't Think So
Posted on May 19, 2004 at 11:06:52 PM by John Cones

Read the book "Patterns of Bias in Motion Picture Content", "A Study in Motion Picture Propaganda: Hollywood's Preferred Movie Messages", "Motion Picture Biographies--The Hollywood Spin on Historical Figures", "Politics, Movies and the Role of Government" and you'll have a better understanding of what we're missing because of the lack of diversity at the top in Hollywood.

John Cones

 

Tinseltown Players Schmooze in Israel
Posted on May 21, 2004 at 10:31:45 PM by Zapata

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=12268

"As the Israel Film Festival tells us, there are many moving films emanating from Israel," said mission co-chair Danny Sussman, a talent manager at Brillstein Grey Entertainment Inc. "Not just films about political strife, films about daily lives. I think it’s a very strong, virtually untapped arena for Hollywood to explore."

The L.A. delegation, made up of writers, directors, producers, executives, managers and publicists, toured the Tel Aviv University film department and instructed screenwriting, production and MFA students on the business of making movies in Hollywood. They gave Israeli students a practical education on industry politics and real-world dealmaking; they watched student films, and heard and critiqued the burgeoning filmmakers’ pitches.

The film professionals’ mere presence in Israel left as great an impact as their insider tips.

"I knew there were a lot of Jews in Hollywood, but I never thought they would support Israelis who are trying to work in film," said third-year student Eden Gurion. "What I heard today is that they want to talk to us because we’re Israeli. I never thought that would happen. It gives me hope."

Looking to bridge the divide between U.S. and Israeli entertainment industries, mission participants networked with leading Israeli filmmakers, writers, actors and producers.

"These are warm, committed people who are passionate about what they do, and just want the opportunity to work with us," said Naomi Goldman, vice president of Rogers & Associates, a national public relations firm.

Both groups believe now is the perfect time to commit to joint projects.

"A number of Israeli films had successful U.S. releases this year. Look at ‘Broken Wings,’" said Katriel Schory, director general of The Israel Film Fund. "What better time to strengthen relations with Hollywood professionals."

Hollywood might agree. With film production costs on the rise, studios are seeking financial partners. Teaming with Israeli funding sources may be the solution for some films.

"The Israeli Film Fund controls millions in potential production financing and there are real possibilities for co-productions between the Hollywood and Israeli film communities," Sussman said.

With so many potential joint ventures, why aren’t more Hollywood-Israeli connections being made? Why aren’t more industry Jews traveling to Israel and fostering business relations?

"People are scared. They all ask why I’d want to travel to a place they perceive as being unsafe," Rubenstein said.

Since the start of the uprising three years ago, Israeli tourism has seen a significant drop. But members of the Entertainment Division mission are encouraging their Hollywood peers to make the trip.

Only by visiting Israel, they say, can these Hollywood executives realize the wealth of talent that exists there.

Re(1): Tinseltown Players Schmooze in Israel
Posted on June 3, 2004 at 08:12:56 PM by Anami

Yeah, this reminds me of an obscure prophecy that Jews from other countries will flock to Israel, because of a worsening economic climate, and they will all perish there in the war that Russia will start and finish with them (it will be sort of a Trojan Horse deal).

Oh boy, never thought that Hollywood films would be the instrument to bring the world to the brink...films do educate.

Will there now be an exodus of Jewish moguls to Israel? Let's hope so....

Anami

 

Future of the Film Industry
Posted on May 23, 2004 at 10:54:49 AM by John Cones

FUTURE of the FILM INDUSTRY

1. The motion picture industry is dominated by a small group of so-called major studio/distributors.

2. These major studio-distributors gained and have maintained their dominance over the industry by means of unethical, unfair, anti-competitive, predatory and in some cases (in my opinion) illegal business practices.

3. Federal government policy, specifically, the federal government's anti-trust law enforcement policy currently contributes to the ability of the major studio distributors to control and dominate the marketplace.

4. The major studio/distributors through various approval rights are consequently able to determine to a great extent which movies are produced and to some extent what the content of those movies is.

5. The result is a severe limit on creativity in movie making and a more narrow selection of motion pictures which tend to range from hoped for blockbusters and lowest common denominator movies to exploitation fare.

6. In addition, the control of the major studio/distributors excludes large segments of our multi-cultural society from the movie making process.

7. A motion picture industry made up of independent producers, independent distributors and independent exhibitors would result in greater creativity in movie-making and create greater opportunities for a significantly larger number of interest groups within out multi-cultural society to participate at a meaningful level in the film making process.

8. To remedy the above stated problems the following remedies may be considered: (1) creation of association of independent feature film producers to work for among other things more vigorous enforcement of the federal anti-trust laws, (2) creation of association of net profit participants to protect the interests of all such persons, (3) introduction of federal legislation called the "Motion Picture Industry Fair Practices Act" to prohibit the above described business practices and/or (4) the filing of a class action lawsuit on behalf of all net and gross profit participants against all of the major studio/distributors on grounds of unconscionability, anti-trust law violations, anti-competitive practices and RICO violations.

John Cones

Re(1): Future of the Film Industry
Posted on May 24, 2004 at 12:46:07 PM by Jack Rooney

Yes, John, absolutely true. But you are dealing with multiple layers of corruption.

The collusive element extends far beyond the boardrooms of the major studios. You have to also deal with the union oligarchies, like SAG, and to a lesser degree, AFTRA, and the various performing rights societies, and the academies (there is nothing "academic" about them), the MPAA and the RIAA.

And then there is government itself, the politicians at numerous levels, from county commissioners and mayors of major production centers, Representatives, Senators and Congressmen, all stuffing their pockets with Hollywood money, all in on "the deal".

The corporations control the politicians by paying off the political parties who send their guys to Washington to write the laws. Hollywood’s big five corporations generally contribute fairly equal amounts of payola to both Democrat and Republican parties, so no matter who is elected, the winner is already bought and paid for. Recent noble attempts at campaign finance reform was like putting a band-aid on cancer.

The corporate function is always to take more than it gives, not to give more than it takes. Corporations by their very nature have an adversarial relationship with We the People, where the goal of all corporations is to get the money. Get it from whom? – Why, from you and me, brow, from We the People.

Corporations are supposed to be regulated by the laws of the land against unfair business practices and restraint of trade. Activities that restrict free and open commerce by narrowing the field to a handful of giant corporate players that control the marketplace and determine what films get made, who and what gets seen and heard, are per se violations of antitrust law. But Hollywood has learned how to manipulate the legal arena to unfair advantage with money. It costs money to run an effective political campaign. And where do the political parties get most of the money to run their machinery? From corporate America.

Hollywood is simply a microcosm of the larger world of corporate reality, of the unholy marriage between Government and the corporations government is suppose to regulate. Hollywood is not doing anything all the rest of the giant industries that generate and control many revenue streams, like the oil industry, the telecommunications industry, agriculture, shipping, mining, and others are not also doing. The more dollars generated by an industry or any of its segments, the easier it is to manipulate Washington to give it what it wants.

Justice is damned as long as the corporations generate enough money to sustain and control the political machinery in Washington. Sadly, art is relevant to the machine only insofar as it is able to drive Washington economics.

With enough money, you can buy anything, and that includes political power, even what the law says, and how it is enforced. With money, corporate America can control the regulators and ultimately the enforcement officials and induce them to pen laws and write the codes to favor a multitude of otherwise corrupt activities and make it all seem perfectly legitimate, or to simply turn a blind eye to it all through inaction, and the corporations stand government on it’s head. The suppose-to-be-regulated corporations are regulating the regulators.

An executive leadership on the take, present and past, through current enactment and old policies, controls the executive branch, to which you would complain with antitrust issues. Even upright career public servants who have seen and heard this all before and who might want to do the right thing and bust up the oligarchs answer ultimately to bosses who change offices (and political and ideological orientation) every 4, 8, 12 years or so.

You might think the judicial branch, to which you would file your class action, is an independent body, but sadly, that simply is not true. For the most part, judges are part of the same political process and parties and are controlled by their fearless leaders stuffing their pockets with Hollywood’s ill-gotten gains. The judges rely on these parties to get them elected, to keep them in power. Judges are under political pressure and that pressure trickles down from a political hierarchy controlled by corporations. We the People are the bottom recipients of a justice dispensed to us by our corporate masters.

Of course racketeers and gangsters run Hollywood. Racketeers and gangsters run the political parties and control the electoral system, which determines who holds power, which determines what laws get made, what laws are enforced (or not) and who the law serves. They are just very sophisticated gangsters with MBAs and JDs from Ivy League schools running the show and calling the shots.

Good luck with your cause, but until we see some real changes in the relationship between corporate America and political reality, I am afraid you are probably spinning your wheels.

--
Jack Rooney
Http://home.att.net/~JackRooney

Re(3): Future of the Film Industry
Posted on May 29, 2004 at 12:59:55 PM by James Jaeger

>Any profits the corporations make cause the stock price to rise and individual shareholders to profit from that rise.

And so that's why the stock market has been doing so well this past three years, all those profits going to the man in the street, eh? Boy, everyone's getting rich out there!

You know as well as I that the ownership of stock by the general public is a relatively recent phenomenon. And such ownership is mostly through mutual funds and pensions invested in mutual funds. Up until just a few decades ago, only about 5% of the people in the U.S. were regularly and significantly invested in stocks.

What we have seen happen in this past decade or so is exactly as Jack Rooney has said: ultimately the corporations have taken more than they have given. Otherwise how do you explain the increased wealth disparity and the corporate influence over government we now experience as commonplace?

The 5% who have been sophisticated in securities ownership for over a century, i.e., the original corporate owner class, has in effect ENTICED the middle class, and even portions of the lower class, into the stock market through the instrument of the mutual fund and promises of attendant low risk. With the crash of the last market, much of the bubble-wealth created by this tremendous influx of capital, has now been preempted by the more savvy traditional investors, some say stolen, through insider sell-offs and the various scandals we have witnessed since 2000. Also, much of the bubble-wealth has gone in to the pockets of CEOs, and other top management, in the form of excessive salaries (some salaries 500 times greater than the average) and stock options (false indicators of corporate health that served to stimulate all sorts of accounting irregularities, such as the Author Anderson/ENRON debacle).

In a nutshell, I would say, the rich have basically suckered the poor into THEIR corporate game and taken them for all they're worth. Now a similar game is being played with the banks and their excessively low interest rates. Many people will be ENTICED into the purchase of a house with ARMs that will become unsustainable as soon as interest rates go up to extraordinary high levels. The Fed-infested banks will then confiscate real estate assets just as the rich confiscated cash assets that went into the stock market from 1987 to 2000.

The game of artificially low interest rates is played with a purpose. In fact the Federal Reserve System, with its incessant issuance of fiat money (money created out of debt, i.e., "Federal Reserve Notes"), came into existence in 1913 to specifically neutralize "capital formation" (corporate savings that could be put to use for expansion rather than necessitating corporate borrowing for the same purpose). Just prior to the Glass-Owen Act, the act that established the Federal Reserve System, many of America's corporations were actually doing things right. They were so productive (without having to exploit more than 5% of the populations' equity capital) they were able to generate enough money, internally, to finance their own expansion. When the New York money-center banks saw this growing trend, they knew they had to counter it. After all, if corporations could generate expansion capital (all by themselves through SAVINGS), why would they need to borrow money from banks? They wouldn't. Thus the scheme for the Federal Reserve System was concocted and stealth fully ushered through pursuant to a VERY secret meeting on Jekyll Island in 1910. The idea was, if the bankers could generate fiat money (the creation of money by "monetizing" debt and forcing acceptance of it by government decree, i.e., government fiat), this money could be offered to corporations at artificially low interest rates -- thus corporations would be ENTICED into borrowing, rather than financing expansion through capital formation. Sound familiar? It's an old game, one not remembered by each new generation (of suckers).

For those who want an excellent review of banking history in the U.S., and a glimpse of how the monetary scientists have set up the system, a system that ultimately works against the public interest, read a book called, THE CREATURE FROM JEKYL ISLAND by G. Edward Griffin available at Amazon.com or from the writer at http://www.realityzone.com/creature.html. Also read a book called MASTERS OF THE TEMPLE by William Greider. Griffin is considered more alternative than Greider, however Greider, who is mainstream, comes to the same conclusion as Griffin: the Federal Reserve System is indeed seriously flawed. Griffin calls for its abolition, whereas Greiger feels it can be reformed. I agree with Griffin, it must be abolished, and a new system established in its place.

James Jaeger

Re(4): Future of the Film Industry
Posted on May 29, 2004 at 06:56:44 PM by Mitchell Levine

Cranky rants about the Federal Reserve; Jewish conspiracy theories; crackpot science - not a good sign, Jimbo...

Re(3): Future of the Film Industry
Posted on May 30, 2004 at 09:37:11 PM by ruski

In other words, Mitch, you didn't understand a word of it, or, if you did, it made so much sense that you couldn't respond with anything except a punt. Sad.

 

Re(4): Future of the Film Industry
Posted on May 30, 2004 at 10:05:58 PM by Mitchell Levine

More like just another instance of Mr. Jaeger using psuedo-erudition to prop up a bogus argument.

I sincerely doubt he's qualified to lecture on the Fed's money supply, and its macroeconomic implications.

It's the kind of thing usually posted from a razor-wire compound in Couer D'alene, Idaho

Re(5): Future of the Film Industry
Posted on May 30, 2004 at 10:53:12 PM by James Jaeger

Jews have nothing to do with the establishment of the Federal Reserve System, nor are they mentioned in either book I cite.

The Federal Reserve System was established the same year J.P. Morgan died which was the same year the income tax was established -- 1913. The Fed was established at that time because it had to replace Morgan as lender of last resort. Discouraging capital formation was, of course, a long-term threat, but when Morgan died, the money center banks suddenly had a serious emergency situation on their hands. Remember there was no FDIC at this time, not that the FDIC can bail very much out even today, as it's basically window dressing for public.

Maybe Jews were instrumental in the European banking system. That's what you must be talking about. And yes, there has been quite a bit of so-called anti-Semitic conspiracy theories over the Rothschilds who established the largest banking cartel in Europe. But that is not my issue, subject or concern.

James Jaeger

P.S. You might be happy to know that while Jewish interests have considerable domination over the media and the Hollywood-based U.S. motion picture industry (as we have all learned at FIRM), they are actually relatively small players compared to Rockefeller interests. If you wanted to get crude about this, one could easily say the planet is basically owned by the Rockefeller Group, directly or indirectly, overtly and covertly. One of your references on this is a book called WORLD WITHOUT CANCER.

Re(6): Future of the Film Industry
Posted on May 31, 2004 at 00:50:01 AM by Mitchell Levine

Jews have nothing to do with the establishment of the Federal Reserve System, nor are they mentioned in either book I cite.

- I don't know if G. Edward Griffin mentions it specifically in that book, but he does claim that Morgan was in fact simply an agent for the Rothschilds.

He's a bigtime New World Order conspiracy paranoid, as well as associate of David Icke and advocate for Laetrile.

He also wrote an additional volume discussing how the income tax is in fact illegal, and subtly encourages tax avoidance on moral grounds.

In other words, you might want to reconsider the amount of credibility you're giving him.

 

Re(7): Future of the Film Industry
Posted on August 2, 2004 at 03:32:08 PM by James Jaeger

>>Jews have nothing to do with the establishment of the Federal Reserve System, nor are they mentioned in either book I cite.

>- I don't know if G. Edward Griffin mentions it specifically in that book, but he does claim that Morgan was in fact simply an agent for the Rothschilds.

The Federal Reserve was established (in 1913) for several reasons: a) to establish a "lender of last resort" after the death of Morgan (in 1913); b) to thwart "capital formation"; c) to provide the government with an endless amount of fiat money, what is laughingly known as an "elastic currency"; d) to give the New York money-center banks almost unlimited control over the direction of the country through monetary policy; e) to facilitate the expansion of government and totalitarianism.

It's interesting to note that the federal income tax was established the same year as the Federal Reserve: 1913. The reason for this: The private owners of the Federal Reserve needed a way to ensure debt service was paid on the fiat money printed and loaned to the country via congress. Why do you think it says "Federal Reserve NOTE" on every dollar you spend? These dollars you use in your daily life are nothing more than IOUs to evidence the fact that the government has issued debt in the form of T-bonds, T-Bills and T-Notes. The Federal Reserve purchases most of this debt and holds the debt instruments as "collateral." Where does it get the money to "buy" the debt? It simply prints up "Federal Reserve Notes" and hands them to your Congressmen who given them the bills, bonds and notes.

The congress then allocates most of this money to the military-industrial-banking complex (war-related and interest related). This is your government at work. How else would Bush be able to CUT taxes durring the Iraq War? Simple. They don't use tax money to pay for wars; they monetize debt as described above.

As a result the national debt is now in excess of $4 trillion and the total debt, the "Debt Bubble," now stands at $31.7 trillion against a GDP of only $10.6 trillion as of December 31, 2002. In other words, the debt owned by all sectors is now 300% of GDP as of 31 December 2002. It's now MUCH worse due to the Wars.

The Federal Reserve banks collect interest on all this debt. THe more debt, public and private, the more interest the Fed-infested banks can collect. It's a racket of unimaginable proportions.

>He's a bigtime New World Order conspiracy paranoid,

If you want to characterize a health concern about the above as "paranoia," then I feel quite justified in characterizing you as an apologist-mOron.

>as well as associate of David Icke and advocate for Laetrile.

Have you read WORLD WITH CANCER? Maybe you, or anyone reading this post, should read that book before judging the political game going on in connection with Laetrile and the cure for cancer.

>He also wrote an additional volume discussing how the income tax is in fact illegal, and subtly encourages tax avoidance on moral grounds.

So do you feel it's moral to establish an income tax just to pay the debt service on debt being run up by a bunch of private New York bankers in collusion with the government, a government violating Article I, Sections 8 and 10 of the Consitution?

>In other words, you might want to reconsider the amount of credibility you're giving him.

One might wish to reconsider any credibility they are giving you Mr. Levine.

James Jaeger

 

Universal Violates Metcalf's Law
Posted on May 23, 2004 at 07:54:58 PM by James Jaeger

"Movie-List's legal scuffling with Universal began almost six months ago when a Universal representative contacted Bazinet and asked him to quit using the movie studio's digitized movie previews. Bazinet had no objections and removed the trailers from his Web servers and CD-ROM collections."

"Then they contacted me and said I wasn't allowed to link to any of their servers containing the trailers -- that I don't understand," he said. "I'm basically sending a user to their servers."

Legal experts did comment, however, saying the legal landscape surrounding deep linking, or hyperlinking deep into another's Web page, is fraught with unpaved ways."

Source: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,20948,00.html


Metcalf's Law = the value of a network grows by the square of the size of the network. Also see http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990725.html

James Jaeger

Re(1): Universal Violates Metcalf's Law
Posted on May 25, 2004 at 08:57:57 AM by Mitchell Levine

As if Metcalf's definition of "value" is the same one you're suggesting, Jim?

Re(2): Universal Violates Metcalf's Law
Posted on May 25, 2004 at 05:53:41 PM by James Jaeger

Okay Mitch.

 

 

Expansion of Antitrust Exemptions for the Privileged
Posted on May 25, 2004 at 01:53:15 PM by Jack Rooney

Expansion of Antitrust Exemptions for the Privileged

Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about -- if you don't like the law as it is written, just re-write it to suit the corporate agenda:

Hal Ponder, AFM union writes today:

"On Thursday, May 20th the EnFORCE Act, S. 1933, [
http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s1933.html ] was reported out of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary. This bill, sponsored by Senators Hatch, Cornyn and Feinstein, helps our members in three fundamental ways. First, it expands the current antitrust exemption that the music industry has to DVDs and other new forms of distributing music for the purposes of negotiating
mechanical royalty rates in these developing markets."

The proposed bill, among other things, seeks to expand antitrust exemption (which the corporate lap dogs MPAA/RIAA conveniently had inserted into the DMCA a while back when it was discovered they were at risk), to the PROs, Unions, and corporations acting in their fiduciary capacity as representative and agents of the artists they use:

SEC. 4. MECHANICAL LICENSE NEGOTIATIONS FOR PHYSICAL PRODUCT CONFIGURATIONS. Section 115(c)(3)(B) of title 17, United States Code, is amended in the first sentence by striking `under this paragraph' and inserting `under this section'.

B) Notwithstanding any provision of the antitrust laws, any copyright owners of nondramatic musical works and any persons entitled to obtain a compulsory license under subsection (a)(1) may negotiate and agree upon the terms and rates of royalty payments under this paragraph and the proportionate division of fees paid among copyright owners, and may designate common
agents to negotiate, agree to, pay or receive such royalty payments. Such authority to negotiate the terms and rates of royalty payments includes, but is not limited to, the authority to negotiate the year during which the royalty rates prescribed under subparagraphs (B) through (F) and chapter 8 of this title shall next be determined.

Seems like a small change but it exempts them from antitrust lawsuits for activities covered under the entire section 115, which would allow them to fix prices for copyrighted material of artists they use or represent. It may not seem like a big deal, since an individual artist can always negotiate a price on their own, independent of the unions, PRO, or the corporations that
employ artists, but not likely to happen in an industry where employment opportunities are restricted by the "Producer's Signatory Agreement".

Price fixing is an antitrust violation for everyone else in the free enterprise system, but not for the studios or their lap dogs.

Of course, this is Orin Hatchwork speaking, The Hatchetman of the MPAA/RIAA cartel, the same guy that wanted to blow up your computer with viruses of mass destruction if you download Jack Rooney's music, even though I say it's okay for my fans to share my music and freely allow it and encourage it.

They are using the file sharing issue as a front to expand the Hollywood monopoly. People have been recording music off the commercial radio airways for decades, but Hatch didn't want to blow up all the radio stations.

The studios can not control the Internet, and that is really causing Hollywood, both the film studios and the music studios, a lot of grief. Independent artists, like Jack Rooney, can sell their wares for whatever the market will bear or even give it away to James Jaeger for use in his productions. Hollywood is not worried about controlling what the public does
with Hollywood films. They want to control the Internet as a distribution media so smaller competitors can't undersell the major studios.

That internet files are digital is a red herring issue, since anyone with a soundcard can plug into an analog radio and record all the digital files off the commercial airways until the cows come home, but they are not shutting down radio. The same is also true of television, and the music file trading issue is merely a foreshadowing of what is going to inevitably happen to
films and television programs as well. You can record television programs as digital files all day long with a graphics card. If you can see it or hear it, you can record it. This is good for independent artists who want the world to see their work, bad for the studios who want the world to see and hear only Hollywood stuff.

When Independent producers started shouting antitrust, Hollywood just marched into Washington and secured for itself a nice little exemption, which it now seeks to expand to include everything digital, including your DVD films, which they want to control by restricting public access to James Jaeger films.

If left unchecked, eventually they will be able to keep your DVD film production off the market, and there will be absolutely nothing you can do about it, they are exempt. . . .

Jack Rooney
http://home.att.net/~JackRooney

 

 

Something Borrowed
Posted on May 27, 2004 at 10:51:39 AM by John Cones

New Movie Mocks Christian Faith

Hollywood, Calif. - Ted Baehr, world-renowned media scholar and founder of the Christian Film & Television CommissionTM ministry, says the new Hollywood movie, SAVED!, to be released May 28 by MGM, is a sad, bigoted, anti-Christian movie that mocks the Christian faith.

He urged other religious leaders, including Jewish and Moslem leaders, to warn their constituents about the "bigoted" movie, which stars Mandy Moore and Macaulay Culkin in a story about self-righteous Christian youths, set in an uptight Christian school.

"SAVED! is a hateful, politically correct movie," Dr. Baehr declared. "The movie is being heavily marketed to the community it mocks to lead Christian youth astray and make them hate their faith."

"The one character who tries to preach the Gospel in the movie," he noted, "is actually the villain in the movie. The heroine, Mary, played by Jena Malone, is told in a vision by Jesus to fornicate with the school hunk in order to save him from homosexuality."

"At the end, Mary learns that her true friends are a rebellious Jewish girl who claims to have been a stripper and the villain's brother, who denies being a Christian and lusts after the so-called stripper."

Dr. Baehr asks, "Imagine if this movie were set in a Jewish school with the faithful Jewish children cast as the villains and the Christian as the heroine who exposes their legalism. Or, what if it were set in an Islamic school, with the faithful Muslims cast as the villains and a Jewish girl as the heroine?"

"The outcry in the press would be tremendous!"

"Just as it would be wrong to mock Jews and Muslims, so it is wrong to mock Christians and God."

 

Movies Influence People
Posted on May 28, 2004 at 03:48:47 PM by John Cones

Once again, this weekend, we are treated to a movie that influences the way people think and behave. The movie, "Day After Tomorrow" has heightened the national debate on the impact of human conduct on our environment. The subject is being vigorously debated on news shows across the board. The supposed political motives of the filmmakers is also being debated. The fact that the film has a political agenda is not disputed. In other words, the filmmakers specifically set out to influence the way people think and behave, which may be a more common motive for filmmakers than most would like to admit. All the more reason why we all should insist that control of the filmmaking, distribution and exhibition apparatus be fairly accessible to all -- that our ideas be allowed to compete on a level playing field, as opposed to the system we have now that is dominated by a few who share a similar background, and more often than not, similar interests.

John Cones

 

 

DAY AFTER TOMORROW
Posted on May 29, 2004 at 06:14:35 PM by James Jaeger

I saw THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW when it opened on Friday and this film will hopefully raise the hair on the backs of those who have been asleep on the serious issue of global warming.

For 10 years now I have been reading the scientific materials and following the debates on the subject. I came to the conclusion a number of years ago that, yes, Earth, we have a problem!

Even though the science in DAY AFTER is not accurate, only a scientist will know this because the filmmakers constructed the film in a very plausible way.

Events depicted in DAY AFTER are known in physics as PHASE TRANSITIONS.
An example of a phase transition is when water SUDDENLY freezes at 0-degrees. Another example is when liquid water suddenly vaporizes at 100 degrees. By the same token, global warming COULD very easily set off a sudden phase transition on earth. Once the balance of a complex system, such as the global weather, has reached a certain threshold, indeed things can change very quickly. In this movie, the salinity of the oceans causes a global phase transition in climate when massive amounts of fresh-water ice from the polar cap drop into the ocean. Salt water and fresh water vaporize at different temperatures, thus the amount of water vapor going into the atmosphere will make a difference on the overall climat. Massive phase transitions like the one depicted in the movie CAN HAPPEN. If if this does not scare the SHIT out of you -- you simply DO NOT COMPREHEND the nature of the Universe in which you live.

The recent Gamma Burst Theory indicates the entire Universe may be in a phase transition right now. We have gone through many since the Big Bang.

So, THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW, is obviously the most important movie that has been made to date. WHY is it the most important movie? Because it addresses one of the MOST IRREVERSIBLE, LONG-RANGE, POTENTIALLY EXTINCTION-LEVEL EVENTS homo sapiens can encounter. The address of THESE kinds of events should, and MUST, take priority over other events. Almost all else, including war, shrinks to insignificance by comparison to GLOBAL WARMING and ASTEROID IMPACTS.

I am proud to be a member of the film industry when the feature film is used to bring attention to situations like GLOBAL WARMING and the human race's moronic exploitation of limited fossil fuels as practiced by so-called leaders of the free world and the corporate money-making mentality that contribute to the insanity. At the same time I am ashamed to be a member of a race that is so lackadaisical about EXTINCTION-LEVEL EVENTS.

Specifically, GLOBAL WARMING is on the order of magnitude of being hit by an asteroid or comet over 1 Km in diameter. If this world were to be hit by such a projectile, the kinetic energy released would be even worse than the storms and events depicted in THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW. The impact from such a collision would cause a dust and debris cloud so pervasive it would rise up into the troposphere and eventually cover the entire planet. Such a cloud would attenuate the sun to a point where vegetation could no longer survive. Eventually all animals that depended on vegetation would die, including the human race. Such a dust cloud would not go away for decades or even a century. The human race could thus have NO CHANCE of survival. And this would be the minor case whereby the comet or asteroid hit the planet on LAND, not on SEA. If it hit us on one of our oceans, things would be even worse because, in addition to the bebris cloud blotting out the sun, we would have tsunamis (tidal waves) that would be 1/4 to 2 miles high hitting the continental shelves destroying EVERYTHING for hundreds of miles inland. That is, such tsunamis would destroy everything that survived the multi-megaton blast and shock waves from the initial impact, such impact being many times the hydrogen-bomb arsenal of the entire world. Lastly, since most of the surface area of the planet is water, the probability is that impact would occur in one of the oceans.

For the above reasons, I feel that the people that are in power that fail to address these extinction level events are potentially orders of magnitude worse than Hitler and Stalin. I also feel that anyone who discounts that statement is simply ignorant of the science.

If an extinction-level event were to hit this world before we wised up enough to handle it -- I for one would not be horrified in the least. I would be happy that the Universe had finally decided to rid itself of such an ignorant and wasteful race as human beings. My only sorrow would be for all the "less intelligent" species who we were suppose to protect, but were to derelict and self-absorbed in other petty matters we thought were so "important."

James Jaeger

Re(1): DAY AFTER TOMORROW
Posted on May 31, 2004 at 08:26:10 AM by ruski

This is the most pathetic post you've made yet there Jim. You should proofread this stuff first, sport.

The Day After Tomorrow as the most important film of all time? Please. Global warming? Asteroid impacts? Man, you need to get out more. The universe in "phase transition"? C'mon, are you serious?

Global warming is a regular process. It's been going on for a lot longer than your posts here at FIRM. Human beings are NOT the cause of it. The "science" you've been reading suggests that the environmental lobby likes to present twisted "facts" to an uninformed public.

From the geological record, asteroid impacts that have global implications happen every 60 million years or so (+/-5 million years). That's a big window. According to you, the film industry is the center of the universe and, from the tone of your post, should set off a global outcry for some response to the impending doom we face tomorrow or a few million years from now.

Scientifically speaking, the earths climate is a lot more stable than that on a geological timescale. The real science supports this if you'd care to look into it. Guess it depends on your sources. The Icelandic Journal of Irreproducible Results doesn't qualify.

Re(2): DAY AFTER TOMORROW
Posted on May 31, 2004 at 10:46:03 AM by Mitchell Levine

Maybe - at least that's my understanding of the scientific issues - but at the very least, it IS trying to make raising personal and corporate awareness of our responsibility of the environment and the world around us a goal.

As far as I know, neither the filmmakers nor the studios have ever said that they believe that the film presents a likely scenario for the near future, and they say it's just a reprise of the 70's disaster genre.

Re(2): DAY AFTER TOMORROW
Posted on June 4, 2004 at 06:32:34 PM by James Jaeger

>The Day After Tomorrow as the most important film of all time? Please.

This film is important because it points attention to an event, if it happened, is irreversible and potentially extinction-level. There are MANY books out on the subject. I suggest you book-up.

>Global warming? Asteroid impacts? Man, you need to get out more. The universe in "phase transition"? C'mon, are you serious?

I'm sure you have little idea what's going on.

>Global warming is a regular process.

Sure, but there is mounting evidence that the CO2 emissions may be pushing it to a limit. Can the human race afford to play around with the probabilities? I say no, better to err on the safe side.

> It's been going on for a lot longer than your posts here at FIRM. Human beings are NOT the cause of it. The "science" you've been reading suggests that the environmental lobby likes to present twisted "facts" to an uninformed public.

Read a book called DEBATE ON GLOBAL WARMING available at Amazon.com. It's an anthology of views, pro and con.

>From the geological record, asteroid impacts that have global implications happen every 60 million years or so (+/-5 million years). That's a big window.

No, that's false. There is a NON-zero probability that an asteroid or comet could hit the earth and do significant damage according to a number of studies, including one by Gene Shoemaker. The probability of asteroid impacts is a function of their mass. The smaller the asteroid or comet, the greater the frequency of impacts. Problem is an asteroid over 1 mile would have enough F=ma to wipe out humanity and these have a MUCH higher frequency than what you are suggesting. An asteroid 1/2 mile in diameter will strike Earth once in 100,000 years thus, statistically, this means that there is a 1 in 1,000 chance that such an object will hit during a human lifetime. Thus the + or - window you are talking about, depending on size, COULD include TOMORROW.

Hathor will make the closest approach to Earth of any KNOWN asteroid. The problem is there are an estimated 2,000 uncharted earth-crossing asteroids out there that are at least 1/2 mile wide. Thus one could strike NEXT WEEK. Astronomers sweated over Swift-Tuttle in 1992 when it made its second visit since its discovery. Some astronomers, such as Brian Marsden, feel that Swift-Tuttle will hit us one day as it passes dangerously close to Earth. There was a point in time where they actually thought Swift-Tuttle WAS going to hit us in 2137. So this matter is nothing to get cocky about.


None of what I have said above takes into account the new evidence that suggests the Solar System may be bobbing up and down through the galactic plane on our way around the galactic nucleus. There are periodic iridium layers in the geological record that indicate that impacts increase every 16,000 years. Comets have high iridium content and travel MUCH faster than asteroids, thus according to F=ma, the mass can be significantly smaller and still do AS MUCH damage as a larger asteroid. And remember, there are many more small objects than large objects in a given population.

These periodic increases astronomers feel may be due to disturbances in the Oort cloud (the region about 1 light year out from the sun where many comets originate) as our solar system passes through the galactic plane encountering the gravitational forces of greater numbers of stars. According to the iridium layers, we are due for another bombardment. There is this same iridium layer in the geologic record when the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago by an asteroid or high-velocity comet. This is serious stuff, and you are irresponsible to make light of it.

>According to you, the film industry is the center of the universe and, from the tone of your post, should set off a global outcry for some response to the impending doom we face tomorrow or a few million years from now.

Stupid comment. Film can be used to bring important issues to the public's attention. Good for film and the industry.

>Scientifically speaking, the earths climate is a lot more stable than that on a geological timescale. The real science supports this if you'd care to look into it. Guess it depends on your sources. The Icelandic Journal of Irreproducible Results doesn't qualify.

See my comments above. I read about this stuff constantly. My leisure reading is astronomy, cosmology and physics so, Dude, please don't try telling me about what's going on in the universe.

James Jaeger

Re(3): DAY AFTER TOMORROW
Posted on June 7, 2004 at 10:08:17 PM by Jim Leroux

I AM SUMMARIZING An article appeared in Discover magazine September 2002 PAGE 34, title "A NEW ICE AGE" Oceanographers discovered river of fresh water in the Atlantic formed by melting polar ice. They warn it could bury the gulf stream, plunging N. America and Europe into frigid winters. Temperatures in the northeast U.S , North Europe, and North Asia temps could be 10 degrees below normal. In the years 1300 to 1850 there was a mini ice age similar to what we may soo experience. It could happen in as little as 10 years, and take hundreds of years to reverse. Effects could include disappearing forests, lower crop yields, less freshwater, faster species exticcntions, and higher heating costs of course. With the crowded nature of the modern world, relocating to warmer climates could be difficult. It is not certain the mini ice age will happen but it could .
The layer of fresh water is about 10 feet thick, most likely from melting artic ice cap. The cold water acts like a banket insulating the warmer gulf current. Th gulf current could be slowed down or steered away from the north atlantic thus keeping the warming effects of the gulf stream to the south. Another current called "The Great Ocean conveyor " snakes through all the worlds oceans could be affected as well. Theory is that the whole system could shut down. Research on sediment core samples show this type of event has happened before, but hard to say exactly what would happen this time. Other theories predict prolonged warm winters as more likely as the weather from late 1960s to the late 1990's which had warmer winters on average., So it remains to be seen. Surely there will be some noticeable effects.

I am sure we all remember the many droughts we had during the 80's and 90's, s wamer is not always better, just different. So dont toss out your snow shovels and ice skates just yet, in fact make sure you have them sharp. clean and ready. Some of our biggest blizards were in that warm period..Feb 1983 23 inches, Mar 1993 24 inches jan 1994 18 inches and 21 inches, feb 1997 30inches, 2003 Feb 19 inches, and Jan 2004 17 inches.

This is a story you may find of interest especially if you are planning to see movie
"The Day after Tomorrow". Oh yes I enjoyed the movie and the special effects were great.

BEST WISHES AND REGARDS

JIM LEROUX

 

The Thing About Movies
Posted on June 1, 2004 at 01:37:32 PM by John Cones

Many movies, and it may even be fair to say that most movies, tend to exaggerate what is being communicated, often to help make a point about something in an emphatic manner. That is probably true about "The Day After Tomorrow" as it is for many movies. Thus, a discussion as to whether that particular movie is accurate, realistic scientifically sound and so forth is somewhat off the mark. On the other hand, it would be accurate to report that after having studied the reviews of thousands of Hollywood movies over a long period of time, they have tended to be biased politically in favor of a liberal point of view. So, "The Day After Tomorrow" appears to fall into that same traditional Hollywood bias (in favor of the politically liberal point of view) and the traditional tendency of movies to exaggerate to emphatically make a point. There would really be nothing at all wrong with a single movie communicating a liberal slant and exaggerating to make its point, if all political points of view had the same fair opportunity to use this powerful communications medium to express their point of view. But, that's the real problem. Hollywood is not a free marketplace of ideas. In many instances, it is merely the propaganda tool of the Hollywood insiders.

John Cones

Money Over Public Good?
Posted on June 9, 2004 at 06:35:06 PM by James Jaeger

"Can we really trust our media anymore if they run their operations with no consideration given for what is right and just?

"Michael Moore is not the greatest documentarian of our time, and in fact he can be downright sneaky when it comes to editing in ways that make his case look better than it should, but his films are eagerly anticipated by millions of people who want to get every piece of information they can before they cast a vote come November. That Disney would potentially hide important information from them, simply to make a few more million dollars of Florida taxpayers’ money, is the height of arrogance, ignorance, incompetence and irresponsibility.

"But then, that’s been Disney’s MO these past few years. Which is why Michael Eisner is just about out on his ass."

Article at http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/feature.php?feature=1109

Re(1): Money Over Public Good?
Posted on June 9, 2004 at 08:07:42 PM by John Cones

And wouldn't you know it, after all of the difficulty Mel Gibson had getting his film distributed, once it happened, and the money started flowing, it was rather inevitable that some in the industry would revert to old habits. Gibson had to sue Regal for his share of the film's revenues. So, the major studio/distributors exercised their bias and didn't want to help produce or distribute the film, and once done, an important exhibitor doesn't want to let go of the money. Pretty typical.

 

Stop Embarrassing Yourself
Posted on June 11, 2004 at 10:12:17 AM by John Cones

One of our recent visitors to the FIRM Discussion Forum makes the point that since the FIRM "control group" model describes the group as politically liberal, then Michael Eisner (a liberal) should be promoting Michael Moore, not refusing to distribute his film. Notwithstanding the fact that this same individual cannot even do what he says he's going to do (remember he promised all of us that he would never come back to this site and post anything again, months ago), he continues to clutter our discussion with his muddy thinking.

First, he engages in a straw man argument. He makes the argument that the FIRM "control group model" does not allow for any exceptions. The fact is that the FIRM description of the Hollywood control group simply and accurately describes the background of the "majority" of major studio executives as politically liberal, not very religious Jewish males of European heritage. Immediately, any thinking person would have to realize that the majority is not the same thing as "all". Thus, when anyone suggests that just because a single individual studio executive does not conform to the FIRM model, therefore the model is wrong, he is overlooking this simple fact that "majority" is not the same as "all" and "majority" allows for some exceptions to the general rule.

Secondly, when we consider the meaning of political liberal, we again are talking about a general rule. In other words, if an individual like Michael Eisner takes 100 positions in the course of a year that have political implications, and 95 of them could be fairly characterized as liberal positions and 5 are conservative, then clearly he is still a political liberal in the overall sense. So, again, our visitor of dubious intellectcual credentials claims that a single position taken by an individual that appears to be a conservative position, must therefore make him politically conservative. It takes more than one decision to make someone "politically conservative" or "politically liberal". Thus, the suggested case that Michael Eisner's single decision to refuse to distribute Michael Moore's film (which apparently reflects negatively on George W. Bush) makes Michael Eisner a political conservative and therefore not within the FIRM control group definition, has simply not been made.

Third, the suggestion that Michael Eisner made his decision for political reasons, although easy to understand, is not really something any of us know. There certainly may have been other non-political reasons involved. Human beings tend to be complicated in that way.

So, the false suggestion that because Michael Eisner refused to distribute Michael Moore's film that decision is somehow inconsistent with the FIRM description of the Hollywood control group is nonsense on three different levels.

Maybe people who cannot think any more clearly than that ought to at least do what they said they would do and not embarrass themselves at this forum any further.

John Cones

 

The Hollywood Cartel
Posted on June 15, 2004 at 10:52:46 AM by Jack Rooney

Hollywood Cartel Mobsters Circling their Wagons

The media cartel wagon-masters are circling the wagons to fend off the unrelenting attack from independent artists and digital content providers currently distributing their own content over the internet using E commerce empowered web sites and kicking lots of old-world mobster bootie.

Those independent artist barbarians are at the gates. And the mob bosses are closing ranks in a desperate attempt to preserve their diminishing market share….

http://www.showbizdata.com/contacts/picknews.cfm?id=35817&referer=http://207.136.132.20/index.htm

You wana distribute your films and songs and digital stuff? You gota payola da insurance money percentage to da VSDA/NARM/MPAA/RIAA cartel bosses, so nutin' bad happens to ya, like maybe your stuff might just disappears from da radar screen database forever, or sumptin' like dat….

Ya wouldn’t want dat ta happen, now would ya…?

Capish...

 

Doing Something About It
Posted on June 16, 2004 at 04:04:39 PM by John Cones

Hollywood meets the Main Line


By: MARK COFTA , Main Line Ticket 01/02/2002; from the Main Line Times

Five years after announcing plans to create the first "virtual movie studio" and distribute films through the Internet, Matrixx Entertainment's James Jaeger feels that technology, awareness and interest are catching up with his vision.



"Since 1996, we have refined the process and can deliver movies on demand to moviegoers as well as profits to investors without 'creative accounting,'" says the Main Line native. "Everybody gets a piece of the pie instantly."
Jaeger believes that technological advances allow filmmaking -- not only shooting, but also editing and post-production work -- to be done anywhere.
Matrixx's state-of-the-art digital editing system in Devon (designed by Bradley Burger of Phoenixville's Micro Computing Services) means that financing, shooting and all the finishing touches can be accomplished far away from Hollywood.
"You can make movies, edit them and distribute them from anywhere," Burger explains. Jaeger is most excited about the prospect of keeping film productions and profits in Pennsylvania. He calls his plan "Automatically Parsed Royalties." "If we can interest investors with reaching over 200 million people and promise immediate returns," he explains, "they'll want to invest."
The state generates about $40 million a year by selling services to Hollywood-based companies, he points out, but if we could not only provide shooting locations and support but produce and distribute movies here, we could rival North Carolina's film business, which grosses over $440 million annually. "When a movie is downloaded," he explains, "the investors and talent will all get paid simultaneously and immediately. You can watch the money roll in from your computer. Aren't you going to want to invest? As people get paid, the quality will go up, and we can compete with Hollywood." Jaeger's approach is multi-dimensional, pursuing his vision of local independent filmmaking and giving consumers easy access to films via the Internet on several fronts at once, including not only film production and distribution, but filmmaker training. Matrixx's "Move Pubs" division provides professional and student-level books and manuals on film production and the movie industry directly through the Internet. "We have hard copies, but we're phasing them out," he notes. "We're only selling e-books; people get them instantly, with no mailing or shipping charges."
Through the Lee Garmes Institute - named after Jaeger's late mentor, an Oscar-winning cinematographer -- Matrixx has 70 students from all over the world enrolled in a practical filmmaking course taught over the Internet. The third educational step still in development is Mini-Mogul Enterprises, which will give new independent producers the tools to start their own companies with less risk.
Matrixx also provides dNa Development, which holds over 100 optioned screenplays made available to producers over the Internet. They can purchase screenplay options for a flat, pre-determined fee, thus avoiding bidding wars and exorbitant agent and lawyer fees.
Matrixx's biggest division may be Internet Distribution, which operates the Home Video Network (www.homevideo.net) and Pay-per-view.com (www.payperview.com), both established on the Internet and powered by BackBone Enterprises, co-owned by Micro Computing Services and Innernet Connect, Matrixx's high-speed access affiliate.
Downloading films from your computer, Jaeger and Burger explain, will soon be quick and easy with modern fiber-optics connections. Today, DVD has 5:1 compression, but a downloaded film in the near future will have no compression, and therefore will be even clearer and sharper than DVD images. Right now, when downloading a film through Matrixx, the consumer can specify compression, frames per second, maximum file size, and even the amount of advertising accompanying the film. (More means a reduced price.)
"Five years ago, I was laughed at," says Jaeger, a prolific screenwriter and experienced director and producer.
A recent article in InternetWeek announced "Moviefly," a venture of several major studios to distribute movies on demand over the Web. "The studios seem to be watching us a lot," Burger adds. "We're waiting for technology and bandwidth to catch up."
Matrixx also plans to produce films, such as Jaeger's script Foul Weather Friends, which he wants to shoot on the Main Line. And the company even has offered a service through its Home Video Network to put people's home movies on the Internet.
"We're not just complaining about Hollywood, but building a better mousetrap - we're trying to do something about it," Jaeger explains. "We're not just into making money, but into getting something new started. If we focus on the product, money will come."

 

Note to Michael Moore
Posted on June 23, 2004 at 12:06:01 PM by John Cones

Note to Michael Moore:

I've had several requests to produce a film about what's really going on in Hollywood, but since I'm not a filmmaker and have no aspirations to be a filmmaker, maybe you may want to consider this topic for one of your next productions. The basic ideas follow:

FILM INDUSTRY OBSERVATIONS
(Working Theories)

By John W. Cones, J.D.

1. PATTERNS OF BIAS--Hollywood movies (those produced and/or released by the Hollywood-based major studio/distributors) have long contained blatant patterns of bias. They consistently portray whole populations of our diverse society in a negative or stereotypical manner (such portrayals in varying degrees include Arabs and Muslims, Latinos, African-Americans, women, Italian-Americans, Christians and regional populations such as Whites from the American South.

2. BIASED BIOPICS--Hollywood movies contain biased biopics, examples of historical revisionism and favoritism in movie portrayals displayed toward a single, narrowly-defined interest group of which the Hollywood control group primarily draws its members.

3. POLITICAL AND SOCIAL ISSUES–The biases in Hollywood movies also show up with respect to political and social issues, for example, Hollywood movies tend to be anti-government, anti-parent, anti-authority, anti-religion, pro-environment, pro-abortion, pro-violence, pro-smoking, pro-foul language, highly sexual and so forth.

4. SIGNIFICANT MEDIUM--The motion picture is a significant medium for the communication of ideas (see the 1952 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Burstyn v. Wilson).

5. IDEAS--Throughout the history of civilization, ideas have always and will always be an important basis for human beliefs and source of motivation for human conduct.

6. INFLUENCE--Thus, it can be proven by pure logic alone, that movies influence human conduct. After all, movies communicate ideas, ideas motivate human behavior, therefore movies must motivate some human behavior.

7. PREJUDICIAL THINKING--During a significant segment of many individual lives (particularly those who are relatively young, uneducated or unsophisticated), repeatedly watching hundreds of powerful motion picture images that consistently portray whole populations of our diverse society in a negative or stereotypical manner can contribute to prejudicial thinking, which in turn, is often the basis of real-life discriminatory behavior.

8. NOT SOLUTION--Thus, at minimum we must concede, movies that consistently portray certain people in a negative or stereotypical manner and/or movies that tend to emphasize certain positions with respect to political and social issues are clearly not helping us solve our society's problems, but more likely, making them worse.

9. MOVIES MIRROR–With respect to why the above-described phenomena are occurring, movies to a large extent, tend to mirror the values, interests, cultural perspectives and prejudices of their makers.

10. MAJOR STUDIOS--The motion picture industry is dominated by a small group of so-called major studio/distributors. The studio releases are the movies seen by more than 95% of the domestic moviegoing audience, and a significant percentage of most foreign audiences.

11. STUDIO EXECUTIVES–Aside from the fact that various creative people including: screen writers, directors, producers and actors contribute to the content of individual motion pictures, the people in Hollywood who have the power to decide which movies are produced and released, to determine who gets to work in the key positions on such movies and to approve of the screenplays serving as the basis for these movies are the three top studio executives at the major studio distributors.

12. SHARED BACKGROUNDS–In the spirit of similar diversity surveys of their members, conducted on a periodic basis by the Director’s Guild of America and the Screenwriter’s Guild, similar surveys of diversity at the top in Hollywood must be regularly conducted. Preliminary evidence demonstrates that a clear majority of these executives throughout the term of existence of these vertically-integrated, distributor-dominated major studios share a common background (i.e., they are politically liberal, not very religious, Jewish males of European heritage), a factual observation which tends to raise protest from certain segments of the so-called Hollywood apologist community, including false accusations of anti-Semitism.


13. CREATIVE CONTROL--The major studio/distributors through various approval rights are able to determine to a great extent which movies are produced and to some extent the content of those movies.

14. LESS DIVERSITY–One result of such control residing in the hands of such a narrowly-defined group is a severe limit on creativity in movie-making and a more narrow selection of motion pictures which tend to range (in a commercial sense) from hoped-for blockbusters and lowest common denominator movies to exploitation fare.

15. EXCLUSION–Long-time and ongoing control of the major studio/distributors also excludes large segments of our multi-cultural society from the movie-making process (i.e., such excluded populations tend to be inaccurately portrayed through the perspective of another cultural group and their positions on many important issues are overlooked).

16. MOVIES ARE PROPAGANDA–All mass communications media including movies that are controlled by any narrowly-defined group and used over an extended period of time to consistently communicate ideas favored by that control group can fairly be described as propaganda. Motion picture propaganda is particularly effective since it is disguised and promoted as "entertainment".

17. BUSINESS PRACTICES--The Hollywood control group gained and has maintained its power through the use of several hundred specifically identifiable unfair, unethical, unconscionable, anti-competitive, predatory and illegal business practices, including massive employment discrimination and antitrust law violations.

18. GOVERNMENT INFLUENCE--The Hollywood control group gets away with its "proclivity for wrongful conduct" (language of various judicial and legal officials who have reviewed such conduct) by routing huge political contributions to presidential candidates and key members of Congress through excessively overpaid studio executives, their spouses and multiple political action committees, so as to discourage vigorous enforcement of the employment discrimination, antitrust and other laws in the Hollywood-based U.S. film industry.

19. GOVERNMENT POLICY--Federal government policy, specifically, the federal government's anti-trust law enforcement policy currently contributes to the ability of the major studio distributors to control and dominate the marketplace.

20. INDEPENDENT FILM--A motion picture industry made up of independent producers, independent distributors and independent exhibitors would result in greater creativity in movie-making and create greater opportunities for a significantly larger number of interest groups within out multi-cultural society to participate at a meaningful level in the film-making process.

21. FREE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS–Our democracy is partly based on the concept of a free marketplace of ideas (i.e., to the extent that our society is able to vigorously and openly discuss the pros and cons of all important issues we should be better able to come up with the best decisions with respect to such issues for our society in general).

22. DEMOCRACY IS FLAWED–To the extent that any significant medium for the communication of ideas, such as the motion picture, is dominated and/or controlled by any narrowly-defined group who consistently uses such medium to communicate ideas preferred by that group, our free marketplace of ideas is diminished and our democracy is weakened. In a democracy, no important communications medium, including film, should be controlled or dominated by any single, narrowly-defined group. Government policy should therefore be changed to ensure a more vigorous discussion of view points in all media including motion pictures (i.e., that all segments of our diverse society have an equal and fair opportunity to tell their stories and promote ideas of interest to them through these important communications media).

--o0o–

 

 

NYT: the movie industry...liberal & secular...outlook, disproportionately Jewish
Posted on June 25, 2004 at 08:40:45 AM by LAX

"Significantly, in the movie industry, which tends to be liberal and secular in outlook, as well as disproportionately Jewish..."


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/movies/24GIBS.html
June 24, 2004
For Mel Gibson, 'The Passion' Seems Mostly a Blessing
By SHARON WAXMAN





LOS ANGELES, June 23 — Two months after the phenomenal success of his film about the Crucifixion, "The Passion of the Christ," the director and movie star Mel Gibson is being courted by many in Hollywood for his connection to middle America, but still held at arm's length by others who found his film divisive.

Despite the long odds of the television development process, Mr. Gibson's Icon Productions will have no fewer than three prime-time television series on the networks' fall schedule: "Clubhouse" on CBS, "Savages" on ABC and "Kevin Hill" on UPN.

In the film world, meanwhile, studio executives say that Mr. Gibson's reputation is up with audiences, and thus on the rise with them, whether or not they were fans of "Passion"

Yet while agents and executives say that Mr. Gibson's representatives are trying to land him a leading role in a romantic comedy, he has not been cast in any movies since his "Passion" triumph. That may be because of his age, 48, and the scarcity of leading romantic parts. But it also reflects the hesitance of some executives, who said they disapproved of Mr. Gibson's comments about the Holocaust during the run-up to the release of "Passion."

That film sparked a raging controversy over its graphic depiction of the Crucifixion and its portrayal of the role that Jews played in the death of Jesus. But the film was embraced by audiences and took in $608 million worldwide to rank as this year's highest grossing film so far.

Since that success there has been much speculation about what Mr. Gibson might do with his newfound clout and resources. Just last week, Forbes magazine named him the most powerful celebrity in the country, a ranking based on news media coverage and financial success. There have even been press reports that he was being wooed by European investors interested in having him buy the Walt Disney Company.

As an executive in his own production company, complete with a library of purchased films and television shows and flush with cash from "Passion," Mr. Gibson is well positioned in Hollywood to make career choices.

Mr. Gibson and his agents declined to comment for this story. His spokesman, Alan Nierob, said the actor's standing in Hollywood "is wherever he wants it to be."

But the entertainment business is highly collaborative, and for now, Mr. Nierob said, "the only thing that's come about is these three TV shows." Icon, he added, has other "projects in development that are moving forward," including a script about Boudica, a warrior queen from the first century, and another about the Maccabees, Jewish rebels in the second century B.C.

The television shows were proposed and developed last year, but the networks did not decide until spring to put them on their fall schedules. And while none of the shows have religious themes, television executives said they believe that Mr. Gibson has a distinct sense of what American audiences want.

"I'm sure that some people were nervous about `The Passion,' but we were not among them," said Jonathan Levin, president of Spelling Television, which is producing "Clubhouse" with Icon. That show is about a teenager who becomes a batboy for a New York baseball team. "We have confidence that Mel has the populist touch," Mr. Levin said. "He clearly understands what moves people."

The shows are all family-friendly. "Savages" is a half-hour comedy starring Keith Carradine as a single, blue-collar dad raising five sons. (Mr. Gibson has six children.)

"Kevin Hill" stars Taye Diggs as a hotshot entertainment lawyer who finds himself the custodial parent of a baby girl after his cousin suddenly dies.

Chris Ender, a CBS spokesman, said that "Clubhouse," a one-hour drama, was generating significant advertiser and press interest. "It's a very different show for us," he said. "There are so many crime dramas on the air."

Mr. Gibson's involvement in the shows is limited. He was co-director of the "Savages" pilot. But Mr. Levin said that he had not met Mr. Gibson, and a spokeswoman for Touchstone Television, which is co-producing "Kevin Hill," said Mr. Gibson had no direct involvement in that series.

As for the movies, one studio head, who asked not to be identified because he did not want to insult Mr. Gibson, said he thought "Passion" emphasized negative stereotypes, but added that Mr. Gibson "is as big a movie star as ever," adding, "He can do anything he wants to do."

Still, there are some people in Hollywood who are reluctant to work with Mr. Gibson. A senior Sony executive said that Amy Pascal, the chairwoman of Sony's Motion Picture Group, turned down a request by Mr. Gibson's agents to consider him for the lead in a remake of "All the King's Men," based on the Robert Penn Warren novel about a politician modeled on Huey Long. The executive declined to be named, on the chance that Sony might want to work with Mr. Gibson later.

Ms. Pascal, this executive said, was offended by Mr. Gibson's unwillingness to distance himself from his father, Hutton Gibson, who has repeatedly denied that the Holocaust happened, a stance he repeated just before the release of "Passion."

Ms. Pascal said that "Sean Penn had already been cast in the lead" of "All the King's Men" when she was approached by Mr. Gibson's representatives. She declined further comment.

The chief executive of another major studio, who was also displeased with the way Mr. Gibson handled his father's remarks about the Holocaust, said this week that he would strenuously resist casting Mr. Gibson in one of his films. But the executive, who also declined to be identified, added: "He'll find a movie. Nobody's going to blacklist him."

Significantly, in the movie industry, which tends to be liberal and secular in outlook, as well as disproportionately Jewish, few people interviewed about "Passion" said they had actually seen the movie. But many said they admired Mr. Gibson's courage in financing and producing it himself.

Warner Brothers executives said that Mr. Gibson was being considered for a cameo in one of their films. Fox was developing "Mad Max: Fury Road," which would have been the fourth installment of the futuristic "Mad Max" series, but its production offices have been closed since September.

In any event, executives note that Mr. Gibson can now green-light his own movies, as he did with "Passion." Mr. Nierob said, "Basically he already runs a ministudio."


Farenheit 9/11
Posted on June 28, 2004 at 10:09:01 AM by John Cones

Farenheit 9/11

I went to see Farenheit 9/11 over the weekend. It was an intense experience. Parts of the movie were very funny, some of it extremely sad. In parts, Michael Moore used several pranks to illustrate his point of view. Much of what was said was actually from the mouths of those in the Bush administration, so there is no question that such statements were made, but the juxtaposition of those statements with questions raised by Moore, made the Bush folks appear quite ridiculous. Thus, there is a heavy dose of ridicule in the movie. Some of what was presented included extreme images of violence in Iraq. That was difficult to watch. People in the audience, laughed, cried, gasped and applauded at times. Lines outside the theatre were about a block long. It was an event at the theatre. Michael Moore used a documentary form of motion picture to say things in an emotionally intense way – to say things that could not have been stated as effectively through any other medium. The controversy over the movie helps to underscore the FIRM and Supreme Court position that the motion picture is a significant medium for the communication of ideas. All, we need to do now, is make sure the ability to communicate a variety of ideas, political and otherwise, is fairly open to all in this country.

John Cones

Re(1): Farenheit 9/11
Posted on July 15, 2004 at 01:39:08 PM by ruski

Is it the subject matter or the hype surrounding how a film is produced that makes films like Farenheit 9/11 and the Passion so successful?

There are untouchable subjects in film--because off those who would like to remain in control of their production and marketing. We've seen that with the Passion.

There a few regular commentators here at the FRIM site. Not exactly an army of people dedicated to it's mission. As movie-making becomes increasingly digitized and being connected requires less and less committment timewise for the average person, what will happen to the mass market? The age where control of media and its content is nearing it's end. Remember when you used to know the names of every player on your favorite baseball team? No more. Likewise, there will be important films made by artists that are less and less connected to Hollywood--less and less known by the team they play on and more and more by the art they produce. As we are seeing it in small doses today, the flow of information is outpacing those who wish to control it. Finally...

 

PBS Shuts Out Indies
Posted on July 2, 2004 at 09:46:14 PM by James Jaeger

PBS SHUTS OUT INDEPENDENT PRODUCERS. by Jerold M. Starr.

Despite its auspicious and promising beginning, the Public Broadcasting Service largely has failed its congressional mandate. PBS was supposed to compensate for the inadequacies of advertiser-driven network programming by providing, in the words of its mandate, an "alternative" that expresses "diversity and excellence," involves "creative risks," and addresses "the needs of the unserved and underserved audiences."

In 1987, Congress was confronted with testimony from members of the Association of Independent Video and Filmmakers (AIVF) that independent producers faced an increasingly "closed system" at PBS. In response, Congress authorized establishment of the Independent Television Service (ITVS) to promote "greater innovation and diversity" in programming, especially concerning "minorities" and "the lives and concerns of American workers."

How's it doing today?

While hundreds of ITVS-sponsored films have been made since, PBS has seen fit to air only a handful. When pressed, former PBS Program Director Kathy Quattrone quipped that ITVS was just one of many competing suppliers for PBS airtime. In 1997, then ITVS Director Jim Yee lamented, "The PBS schedule hasn't changed in the last several years. There is very little room for original programming." In the years since, Yee and his successor have pursued subscription cable channel outlets, like Showtime, with more success than they had at PBS.

Three stations (WGBH in Boston, WNET in New York, and WETA in D.C.) provide more than 60 percent of the PBS schedule, while more than 300 do not contribute anything. While independents account for nearly 20 percent of all national programming, almost all their productions must be channeled through the same three "presenting" stations.

Worse, as author/filmmaker B.J. Bullert reports, even if they are accomplished filmmakers, PBS gatekeepers do not consider public interest advocates to be "journalists." In her words, they often "label" their work "propaganda," and assume that their interests bias their reporting. Deadly Deception is an exposé of radiation poisoning of workers and residents by General Electric nuclear weapons production that won the 1991 Academy Award for Best Documentary Short. The film was produced by INFACT, a public interest group leading a GE boycott. PBS turned it down. KQED San Francisco Program Director, Ron Santora defended the decision with the statement: PBS "stays away from documentaries commissioned by groups of that nature. We use more independent producers without an axe to grind." Yet PBS has had no qualms about airing several documentaries underwritten by foundations promoting a conservative political agenda.

Frontline and POV are the only regularly scheduled PBS series that host serious documentaries. Only a handful of producers routinely are called upon to produce those shows. Former CBS producer Robert Richter won several Emmys, three duPonts and a Peabody, but he has never made it to Frontline. "It's a very closed circle," he says, "I've tried to penetrate a few times, but it's not easy." His film, The Money Lenders about the impact of the World Bank and the IMF on developing countries has been timely for years. However, PBS turned it down in 1993 with the comment: "Even though the documentary may seem objective to some, there is a perception of bias in favor of poor people who claim to be adversely affected."

Last year, Citizens for Independent Public Broadcasting organized a nationwide competition to identify the best recent public affairs documentaries rejected by PBS. Participating AIVF Salons judged six films to be "ready for PBS." In every case, the producers provided eloquent testimony on their persistence and resourcefulness in overcoming obstacles to get their films made. The films went on to win awards. When it came to PBS, however, the door was shut.

Fred Glass' Building the House They Lived In depicts the California labor movement's successful fight for fair employment practices in the 1950s. Glass' "pay as you go project" took eight years to make and depended on help from labor unions. He was told this made his film ineligible for PBS airing. Glass reflects, "PBS has been forced to rely increasingly on corporate sponsorship and support in Congress. The more PBS is perceived as promoting programming of the left, such as labor history, the less certain it is to receive the support of the right." In fact, PBS systematically bans documentaries that receive even partial funding from public interest groups or labor unions, a practice that amounts to de facto censorship of content.

Barbara Zahm's The Last Graduation chronicles the dramatic success and ultimate killing of college programs in prisons by the 1994 "Contract with America" Congress. Zahm states, "We were told that it might be best to find a PBS affiliate station to support our project, but we found that unless we fit into one of the affiliate's predetermined formats, it was unlikely we could find support there."

America's dangerous ignorance of the complexities of Middle East politics has become painfully clear. A film by Kevin McKiernan examines the 25 million-member Kurdish struggle for national independence. The U.S. government encourages the Kurds in Iraq fighting against Sadam Hussein. Across the border, however, the U.S. government supplies weapons and training to the Turkish government's repression of the same movement. McKiernan recollects: "The most frustrating part was the inability to even engage PBS personnel in a discussion, regardless of outcome. Frequent letters were not replied to, phone calls were not returned. Oregon Public television liked the film but informed me that 'stories with a foreign element no longer fly' at PBS national."

Danny Schechter's Falun Gong's Challenge to China looks behind the fascinating story of the Chinese government's repression of a spiritual practice that claims 100 million followers worldwide. The crackdown has resulted in more than 50,000 arrests, pervasive torture, 120 deaths, the burning of eight million books, and widespread world media coverage. However, it was no-go at PBS. Schechter states: "The documentary genres that PBS now considers priorities as listed on their Web site, are not strong on investigative or topical current affairs programs like the ones we are keen to produce. We are ready for PBS, but when will PBS be ready for us?"

PBS has turned away countless independent filmmakers with the explanation that their work is "too controversial," their support comes from the wrong sources, or their production quality does not meet standards. The result is that the only place in the broadcast spectrum where citizens can learn about important public affairs issues at home and around the world fails its mission and its public.

Jerold M. Starr is executive director of Citizens for Independent Public Broadcasting, a grassroots campaign to improve public broadcasting. He is also professor of sociology at West Virginia University. This article was originally published at www.tompaine.com.

Source:
http://www.media-alliance.org/article.php?story=20031022152610209

 

Propaganda
Posted on July 2, 2004 at 10:21:10 PM by James Jaeger

The word "propaganda" is very much like the word "terrorist." It depends on viewpoint.

To Great Britain, the colonists shooting guns at their soldiers were "terrorists." Today, the Muslim world referrers to so-called terrorists as "freedom fighters" or "dissidents."

To corporations promoting a product, propaganda is called "advertising." Advertising is never "fair and balanced." Advertising is one-sided propaganda stateing that "our product is better." Reasons 1, 3, 7 and 8 are given. Reasons 2, 4, 5, 6 why it is inferior are selectively omitted.

So just as freedom fighters can be considered terrorists and propaganda can be considered advertising, the value of a term is totally dependent on whose side you want to take.

Back in the era when we had but 3 networks, NBC, ABC and CBS, it was more important that news be "fair and balanced." Not so today. Because everyone has at least 50 networks, one is able to create his own fair and balanced news to the degree he takes the time to carefully look at and analyze the propaganda (a.k.a. "news," advertising, promotion, ideology, slant, bias, POV) put out by a cross section of the networks (or movie studios).

For any given person, company, studio or network to attempt to be so-called "fair and balanced" is folly. IT CANNOT BE DONE.

Thus, in today's climate of numerous mass media outlets, not even to mention the Net, it's an adversarial system whether we like it or not.

Fair and balanced news is best hammered out when networks and news outlets, as well as films, stop trying to be "fair and balanced." When all programming lets it all hang out; when we have total and complete diversity and choice; when we have programming that propagandizes the hell out of any and all subjects: only THEN will consumers of mass media and movies be in a position to experience ALL points of view -- in their extremes in some cases -- and thus HAMMER OUT THE "TRUTH."

So propaganda is good because it displays passion about a subject. Passion has no "fair and balanced" because it doesn't NEED to. Passion makes the most intense argument possible for a given view. This is okay so long as other passionate arguments are NOT suppressed (as in media conglomerates). Fair and balanced comes ONLY when a consumer TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR EXPOSING HIM OR HERSELF TO ALL VIEWS AND THE MAKING UP HIS OR HER OWN MIND.

And if the media or studios refuse to provide ALL points of view -- NO MATTER HOW FANATIOCAL OR EXTREME OR BOREING OR PROPAGANISTIC -- then it is the consumer's responsibility to boycott that media or studio with out limit or reservation.

James Jaeger

Fahrenheit 9/11 - a POV
Posted on July 7, 2004 at 04:27:33 PM by James Jaeger

I have just seen Michael Moore's documentary, FAHRENHEIT 9/11 -- a philosophical treatise as to why (and how) nations go to war. Also see http://www.mecfilms.com/universe/articles/formula.htm

Moore has now put out his point of view in a documentary.

Let Bush (and the rest of his "Base") now put out their documentaries.

Only after seeing both sides express their views, as passionately and completely as possible, can one make a "fair and balanced" determination as to what they want to agree upon as so-called reality.

Given this is the only way anyone has a hope of ascertaining "truth," it becomes evident what the magnitude of the crime is when studios (and media) withhold, suppress, boycott, censor, "chose not to fund," "exercise their right not to distribute" motion pictures that present a diversity of viewpoints on any given story, subject or event (even if those views are labeled "extreme" by apologists for a given system).

Thus, it is supreme irresponsibility for the public to tolerate ANY narrowly defined group that would today continue to dominate (or control) the TV and print media or the MPAA studio/distributors that own and influence same.

This theme is what we are trying to express at FIRM.

James Jaeger

Media's Dual 'Propaganda' Thresholds
Posted on July 8, 2004 at 10:47:33 PM by James Jaeger

July 3rd, 2004 1:46 pm
Counterbias.com: The Media's Dual 'Propaganda' Thresholds


Michael Moore Versus Authority: The Media's Dual 'Propaganda' Thresholds
By Robert Furs / Counterbias.com
July 2 2004

There seems to be two different thresholds for use of the word "propaganda" when it comes to the work of Michael Moore compared to, well, anyone or anything else.

As one of the most connotatively negative words in social history, the word is a grim one. The term alone brings up images of Stalin brainwashing the masses through totalitarian thought-control, Hitleristic mass-murder, and the loss of free human thought in general. Propaganda, in its classical meaning, does not correlate with happy imagery.

Yet, strangely, the media has been quick to label Michael Moore’s new film, Fahrenheit 9/11, as just that: propaganda. Whereas journalists and media figures are usually shy about using the term—especially towards where it applies most effectively, the government—they seem to have saved it for government enemies, in this case Michael Moore.

Slate Magazine’s review of the movie is titled "Proper Propaganda", going on to say that "Fahrenheit 9/11 is not a documentary for the ages, it is an act of counterpropaganda that has a boorish, bullying force. It is, all in all, a legitimate abuse of power."

An MSNBC entertainment story states that "Moore’s latest work can fairly be classified as propaganda". A Los Angeles Times review states that Fahrenheit 9/11 "is propaganda, no doubt about it". The Wall Street Journal calls Moore’s work "propaganda", as does the New York Press. A Canadian Press article suggests that we "just call Fahrenheit 9/11 a piece of cinematic propaganda and leave it at that."

A New York Post editorial calls Moore "the very model of the modern propagandist". Another editorial in the same edition of the same paper calls his film "political propaganda".

It then went goes further, saying, "For all its clever slickness, Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 9/11' does not stack up to such brilliant but evil art as Leni Riefenstahl's propaganda films for Hitler". This editorial, in fact, uses the word propaganda three times to describe Moore or his work.

Even the usually moderate Aaron Brown, on his CNN show, nonchalantly referred to Fahrenheit as "propaganda".

Andrea Mitchell, as guest host on MSNBC's Hardball, opines that "I`m not going to say it`s a documentary because it really in some ways is propaganda." Joel Siegel, ABC's Good Morning America entertainment editor, says that "it is polemic, it is propaganda". ABC's Mark Halperin calls it "very well made piece of propaganda".

Even a Google News search on this particular date for the simple, wide-ranging search term "propaganda" brings up a grouping of Fahrenheit 9/11 articles as the first result!

The disturbing thing about this is not the mere fact that Moore’s work is being labeled as propaganda, because, by definition, it is. According to the American Heritage Dictionary:

prop·a·gan·da

1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.

So, labeling Moore’s work as such is not what is bothersome. The problem is the double standard the media applies to the different disseminators of propaganda. When the government is involved in definite propaganda propagation, as they are on most occasions to be sure, the P-word is rarely, if ever, used by the mainstream media.

If far-off, third-world nations are the subject of report, the North American media is safe with using the word "propaganda" in the context of dictatorships and totalitarianism—but propaganda in the western world, such as that so often seen and heard during the Iraq War and election cycle, for example, will never be labeled with the P-tag.

Did you catch the example in the second definition--"wartime propaganda"? How much wartime (9/11, Iraq, Al-Qaeda, Saddam, "they hate our freedom", "war on terror", "he gassed his own people", etcetera) propaganda have we endured? A large portion of our lives consist of soaking up propaganda, whether it be from the television, the newspaper, the internet, our mothers, teachers, or buddies—if someone’s trying to influence your opinion and takes determined effort in doing it, they’re peddling propaganda, as far as the definition goes.

And nobody does it better than the US Government, which has elevated the practice to an art form. Unfortunately, their propaganda is not covered as such by the media. Only when someone steps up to challenge the power of a governing authority does the media step in to drop the ‘p-bomb’.

"Propaganda", they say. Michael Moore is peddling Stalin’s evil, straight to a child near you! Yet when Dick Cheney is telling you that Saddam is trying to acquire nuclear weapons, or Colin Powell is showing you tubes full of Saddam’s non-existent anthrax, or Dick Morris is telling you that the terrorists want Kerry, they’re pushing propaganda. When you read the New York Post or watch Fox News, you’re viewing propaganda. When you read a press release, or a news report regurgitating something a government official said, you’re reading propaganda.

A lot of what the government does on a daily basis, according to the American Heritage Dictionary, is propaganda. As is the case with politically motivated activists dedicated to a cause. The same goes for politicians, bloggers, lobbyists, doctors and even columnists such as your humble writer. Any outspoken group or individual with a cause is guilty of dabbling in the Big P.

By telling you about the use of the word "propaganda" and how it is unjustly and unevenly used against enemies of the government—like Michael Moore—I am engaging in the dissemination of propaganda.

But don’t expect it to be termed as such quite yet.

For what I write has no chance of helping undermine a government’s re-election chances, as Fahrenheit 9/11 does. When MSNBC and the New York Post refer to this article as "propaganda", then I know that what I write is having an effect on the citizenry’s view of the Bush administration.

Now, I’m off to read about why the War In Iraq is going magnificently and why America must stay the course, because the terrorists hate our freedoms and want to kill my family and will do so if America doesn’t elect Bush and dramatically increase military spending so we can shoot every living terrorist in the head for the sake of liberty.

Who needs propaganda, after all?

Source: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/mikeinthenews/index.php?id=58

Re(1): Propaganda
Posted on July 3, 2004 at 04:10:40 PM by Mitchell Levine

"The word "propaganda" is very much like the word "terrorist." It depends on viewpoint."

- Whether or not something is propaganda depends in large part on whether or not it's factually accurate.

"To Great Britain, the colonists shooting guns at their soldiers were "terrorists." Today, the Muslim world referrers to so-called terrorists as "freedom fighters" or "dissidents.""

- The colonists were defending themselves against soldiers that were attacking their homes; Mid-East terrorists are typically targeting innocent civilians.

"To corporations promoting a product, propaganda is called "advertising.""

- Advertising is paid for by the advertiser and clearly labeled as such, unlike news which is supposed to be unbiased journalism. The two aren't equivalent. There are laws that forbid advertisers from making false claims, unlike most propaganda.

"Advertising is never "fair and balanced." Advertising is one-sided propaganda stateing that "our product is better." Reasons 1, 3, 7 and 8 are given. Reasons 2, 4, 5, 6 why it is inferior are selectively omitted."

- Advertising isn't supposed to be "fair and balanced" - as long as it isn't outright fraudulent - that's why it's clearly labeled as "advertising."

"So just as freedom fighters can be considered terrorists and propaganda can be considered advertising, the value of a term is totally dependent on whose side you want to take."

- Untrue: there are objective standards which determine whether or not a terrorist is actually a freedom fighter, and the same with advertising. Just because a terrorist calls themself a "freedom fighter" hardly means that label is objective or accurate.

"Back in the era when we had but 3 networks, NBC, ABC and CBS, it was more important that news be "fair and balanced." Not so today. Because everyone has at least 50 networks, one is able to create his own fair and balanced news to the degree he takes the time to carefully look at and analyze the propaganda (a.k.a. "news," advertising, promotion, ideology, slant, bias, POV) put out by a cross section of the networks (or movie studios)."

- That doesn't absolve a news organization from their journalistic responsibility to provide unbiased, accurate information to their viewers. Even with three networks, the webs could have used the same argument; i.e., "we aren't the only news source, therefore they can cross-reference us against the CBS News."

"For any given person, company, studio or network to attempt to be so-called "fair and balanced" is folly. IT CANNOT BE DONE."

- That's ridiculous: it may be impossible to be absolutely objective, but there are certainly reasonable standards of practice that can be adhered to, as is well-known to anyone that's ever taken a class in journalism.

"Thus, in today's climate of numerous mass media outlets, not even to mention the Net, it's an adversarial system whether we like it or not."

- That's only to the viewer's benefit.

"Fair and balanced news is best hammered out when networks and news outlets, as well as films, stop trying to be "fair and balanced." When all programming lets it all hang out; when we have total and complete diversity and choice; when we have programming that propagandizes the hell out of any and all subjects: only THEN will consumers of mass media and movies be in a position to experience ALL points of view -- in their extremes in some cases -- and thus HAMMER OUT THE "TRUTH.""

- Just to begin with, there's a big difference between "news" and "entertainment." Fictional narratives exhibited by the studios don't have the same responsibility to "show all sides" that journalism does, as that's clearly impossible within the context of a single story. While fictional films shouldn't spread fraudulent misinformation, they also aren't billed as journalism.

"So propaganda is good because it displays passion about a subject. Passion has no "fair and balanced" because it doesn't NEED to. Passion makes the most intense argument possible for a given view. This is okay so long as other passionate arguments are NOT suppressed (as in media conglomerates). Fair and balanced comes ONLY when a consumer TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR EXPOSING HIM OR HERSELF TO ALL VIEWS AND THE MAKING UP HIS OR HER OWN MIND.

And if the media or studios refuse to provide ALL points of view -- NO MATTER HOW FANATIOCAL OR EXTREME OR BOREING OR PROPAGANISTIC -- then it is the consumer's responsibility to boycott that media or studio with out limit or reservation."

- It's impossible for a studio that's releasing fictional cinema to show "all sides": just to begin with, it's not even always possible to determine "what side" a work of fiction is on in the first place.

Cinema certainly shouldn't spread harmful misinformation, like, say, that black slaves in the Old South enjoyed servitude, or that Laetrile is an effective substitute for Interferon, but it's certainly not the case that the producers of Troy are now responsible for producing a film that shows that war is not an acceptable solution for infidelity.

Nor are they obligated to show every viewpoint no matter how fanatical, boring, or extreme they might be. If something's boring, it should never be made at all, because it will lose money and diminish the capital base for other filmmakers. If a viewpoint is "fanatical " or "extreme," there's a good chance that they're inaccurate or offensive, which would do a disservice to the viewing public, and alienate ticketbuyers.

Re(2): Propaganda
Posted on July 4, 2004 at 04:13:40 PM by James Jaeger

>- Whether or not something is propaganda depends in large part on whether or not it's factually accurate.

And whose "facts" will you be using?

>- The colonists were defending themselves against soldiers that were attacking their homes; Mid-East terrorists are typically targeting innocent civilians.

The British were seeking to restore law and order in a land they PAID to explore and settle, a land they didn't want a bunch of ungrateful terrorists to steal. They taxed because they simply wanted to recoup some of their exploration costs. Again, whose facts do you opt to use?

The Indians were here for thousands of years prior to the White terrorists that raided their land and generated one of the largest holocausts in history. Whose facts do you opt to use?

- Advertising is paid for by the advertiser

The propagandist also pays for his printing and delivery costs.

and clearly labeled as such,

I can't remember the last time I saw the words "this is an advertisement" on a TV spot.

>unlike news which is supposed to be unbiased journalism.

Just like the front page of the New York Times I suppose. No idealogs there.

>The two aren't equivalent.

Sure they are. One is just more covert than the other. Both represent a strong point of view on some subject, both cost money to disseminate, both may or may not be true, both may or may not be acceptable, i.e., some women resent the advertising of tampons on TV whereas some resent the NYT posting over 50 stories on certain liberal subjects while ignoring what many believe to be more important news on the right.

>There are laws that forbid advertisers from making false claims, unlike most propaganda.

Again, what you consider false the advertiser may consider true. And in proving the advertiser true or false, whose "study" do you want to believe? Thus such laws are seldom enforced. It took millions of people to die before such "laws" finally took out false advertising about cigarettes. So, in a practical sense, just because a law forbids or allows something is meaningless. Laws come and go, just as do governments and too often laws are made by vested interest groups. Take the FDA for example. This gov agency works for the American consumer as much as Osama bin Laden does. Lastly, why should citizens follow laws that they did not make? Why should citizens follow laws that were made as a result of corporations that in effect bribe congressmen with endless lobbying and campaign financial incentives?

- Advertising isn't supposed to be "fair and balanced" - as long as it isn't outright fraudulent - that's why it's clearly labeled as "advertising."

I never said advertising was supposed to be fair and balanced.

You are missing my entire point in this post. Since "truth" can never really be known, it is folly to attempt more than one version of the truth in a given communication. It is better to allow the communicator to passionately argue for his product, ideology, take on an event (i.e., so-called "news") and put just that one version of "truth" out there. Then others can present their versions just as passionately. It's similar to what you and I are doing here.

>- Untrue: there are objective standards which determine whether or not a terrorist is actually a freedom fighter,

That's horse. All people feel they are right. No person in this world feels they are wrong or incorrect. There is no such thing as "objective" reality. All reality is ultimately "subjective." Ultimately, the biggest most powerful victor dictates what will be considered so-called "reality." L. Ron Hubbard defined reality as "the agreed upon appearance of existence."

>and the same with advertising. Just because a terrorist calls themself a "freedom fighter" hardly means that label is objective or accurate.

Depends on whose side you were born. Hey Levine, pop out of your head.

>- That doesn't absolve a news organization from their journalistic responsibility to provide unbiased, accurate information to their viewers.

Back then, news out lets had a greater responsibility to at least attempt to present a version of reality that would be considered most "true" or "acceptable" or "balanced."

- That's ridiculous: it may be impossible to be absolutely objective, but there are certainly reasonable

"Reasonable!" There is no reasonable definition of what is reasonable. Version of reality is dependent upon POV and how you were programmed.

>standards of practice that can be adhered to, as is well-known to anyone that's ever taken a class in journalism.

False. The more witnesses you have to a given event the less certainty you have as to what actually happened.

- That's only to the viewer's benefit.

Duh. That's the entire point of my post.

>>"Fair and balanced news is best hammered out when networks and news outlets, as well as films, stop trying to be "fair and balanced." When all programming lets it all hang out; when we have total and complete diversity and choice; when we have programming that propagandizes the hell out of any and all subjects: only THEN will consumers of mass media and movies be in a position to experience ALL points of view -- in their extremes in some cases -- and thus HAMMER OUT THE "TRUTH.""

>- Just to begin with, there's a big difference between "news" and "entertainment."

So you would like to think. Often "entertainment" is covert propaganda, a.k.a., promotion for a particular ideology, cultural bias or preference.

>Fictional narratives exhibited by the studios don't have the same responsibility to "show all sides" that journalism does,

Nevertheless, as John Cones studies have shown, they do indeed fail to "show all sides" thus the dominating minority that decides which sides to show and which sides to suppress, is ultimately a propaganda machine. And nothing wrong with that, so long as the dominating minority is abolished - as it will be eventually.

>as that's clearly impossible within the context of a single story. While fictional films shouldn't spread fraudulent misinformation, they also aren't billed as journalism.

And much "journalism" isn't billed as propaganda even though it is. For a case study on this read the New York Times.

>- It's impossible for a studio that's releasing fictional cinema to show "all sides":

Over how many movies? 1? 10? 100? 1,000? Patterns of bias develop which indicate that studio releases mirror their makers.

>just to begin with, it's not even always possible to determine "what side" a work of fiction is on in the first place.

But often it is.

>Cinema certainly shouldn't spread harmful misinformation, like, say, that black slaves in the Old South enjoyed servitude,

Maybe some of them did.

The past is as impossible to decipher as the future.

>or that Laetrile is an effective substitute for Interferon, but it's certainly not the case that the producers of Troy are now responsible for producing a film that shows that war is not an acceptable solution for infidelity.

Since history is written by the victor, none of us have any idea what really happened in the past. Get used to it.

>Nor are they obligated to show every viewpoint no matter how fanatical, boring, or extreme they might be. If something's boring, it should never be made at all,

Just because it bores you doesn't mean it bores others. Every subject will
excite someone.

>because it will lose money and diminish the capital base for other filmmakers.

The loss or gain of a movie is a function of how much it cost to make the picture, vs. the potential market less the shrinkage in the distribution chain.

>If a viewpoint is "fanatical" or "extreme," there's a good chance that they're inaccurate or offensive, which would do a disservice to the viewing public, and alienate ticketbuyers.

Many things we hold as truths today started out as absurdities. When you read science, you see this pattern endlessly. Thus, I say: it is risky to brand something as "too extreme" or "fanatical." It is also risky to only absorb information that is extreme in one direction without also absorbing the extremes in the other direction.

>- It's impossible for a studio that's releasing fictional cinema to show "all sides"

FOX could have made a start in this direction by not boycotting THE PASSION. Just because the vast majority of the people that run the studio aren't Christians is no reason why they should have "opted not to distribute Mel's film" - a euphemism for boycotting it.

James Jaeger

Re(3): Propaganda
Posted on July 4, 2004 at 08:00:25 PM by Mitchell Levine

"And whose "facts" will you be using?"

- Ideally, independent verification by a neutral third party: that's the standard of journalism.

"The British were seeking to restore law and order in a land they PAID to explore and settle, a land they didn't want a bunch of ungrateful terrorists to steal. They taxed because they simply wanted to recoup some of their exploration costs. Again, whose facts do you opt to use?"

- The British were doing it as part of an immoral, racist institutition of exploitative colonialism that offered no representation whatsoever to the colonized individuals.

"The Indians were here for thousands of years prior to the White terrorists that raided their land and generated one of the largest holocausts in history. Whose facts do you opt to use?"

- Much of the land was uninhabited, and the largest part of the holocaust was caused simply by the Natives not having immunities to the disease carried by the colonists.

And to a large extent, the Native Americans have legitimate grievances. That, however, doesn't relieve the British from their culpability: they were the ones that instigated the whole thing themselves.


"The propagandist also pays for his printing and delivery costs."

- But isn't labeling his work "propaganda."

I can't remember the last time I saw the words "this is an advertisement" on a TV spot.

- "And now a word from our sponsors." Everything that comes between any show's breaks are commercials, as all viewers are aware, including you. When's the last time you mistaked commercials for the interceding show's programming???

"Just like the front page of the New York Times I suppose. No idealogs there."

- The Times adheres to objective standards of journalism, which is why episodes like the Jayson Blair incident are shocking. Op-ed collumnists label their work "opinion."

>The two aren't equivalent.

Sure they are. One is just more covert than the other. Both represent a strong point of view on some subject, both cost money to disseminate, both may or may not be true, both may or may not be acceptable, i.e., some women resent the advertising of tampons on TV whereas some resent the NYT posting over 50 stories on certain liberal subjects while ignoring what many believe to be more important news on the right.

- Except journalists adhere to objective standards agreed upon by the editors and enforced by management; advertisers say anything that isn't illegal.


"Again, what you consider false the advertiser may consider true. And in proving the advertiser true or false, whose "study" do you want to believe? Thus such laws are seldom enforced. It took millions of people to die before such "laws" finally took out false advertising about cigarettes. So, in a practical sense, just because a law forbids or allows something is meaningless. Laws come and go, just as do governments and too often laws are made by vested interest groups."

- Bunk: the rules are made by the FCC, and enforced by the federal government, and the studies are produced using objective standards of the experimental method.

" Take the FDA for example. This gov agency works for the American consumer as much as Osama bin Laden does. Lastly, why should citizens follow laws that they did not make? Why should citizens follow laws that were made as a result of corporations that in effect bribe congressmen with endless lobbying and campaign financial incentives?"

- Why should there be laws at all and not anarchy? And there's lots of evidence that the laws, while not perfect, protect consumers.

"I never said advertising was supposed to be fair and balanced.

You are missing my entire point in this post. Since "truth" can never really be known, it is folly to attempt more than one version of the truth in a given communication. It is better to allow the communicator to passionately argue for his product, ideology, take on an event (i.e., so-called "news") and put just that one version of "truth" out there. Then others can present their versions just as passionately. It's similar to what you and I are doing here."

- Your extreme relativism ("Truth can't be known") is bogus: the scientific method was created to separate fact from non-fact, and while it may not be possible to know absolute "truth," there are certainly many ways to vett information.

"That's horse. All people feel they are right. No person in this world feels they are wrong or incorrect."

- That does NOT mean they aren't.

"There is no such thing as "objective" reality. All reality is ultimately "subjective.""

- Just kick a rock, and the world's objectivity will make itself clear. And if a guy upset with U.S. foreign policy kills your family, you'll quickly change your mind about right and wrong.

"Ultimately, the biggest most powerful victor dictates what will be considered so-called "reality." L. Ron Hubbard defined reality as "the agreed upon appearance of existence.""

- The rest of the rational world defined L. Ron Hubbard as a crank, liar, and head of a destructive bogus cult which he himself didn't believe in.


"Depends on whose side you were born. Hey Levine, pop out of your head."

- No, it doesn't: there is a difference between right and wrong.

"Back then, news out lets had a greater responsibility to at least attempt to present a version of reality that would be considered most "true" or "acceptable" or "balanced.""

- They still do. A greater number of them doesn't change that.


"Reasonable!" There is no reasonable definition of what is reasonable. V"ersion of reality is dependent upon POV and how you were programmed.

- Untrue: serve on a jury and you'll understand the difference. Objective reality exists independently of the observer..

"False. The more witnesses you have to a given event the less certainty you have as to what actually happened."

- Bullshit: witnesses often in fact agree.

"Duh. That's the entire point of my post."

- Doesn't mean I can't agree, no matter how stupid the other points may be.

>- Just to begin with, there's a big difference between "news" and "entertainment."

So you would like to think. Often "entertainment" is covert propaganda, a.k.a., promotion for a particular ideology, cultural bias or preference.

- All presentations of reality are subjective: "news" purports itself to be factual, and thus has a different standard to adhere too. Fictional entertainment doesn't, and therefore has a different burden.

"Nevertheless, as John Cones studies have shown, they do indeed fail to "show all sides" thus the dominating minority that decides which sides to show and which sides to suppress, is ultimately a propaganda machine. And nothing wrong with that, so long as the dominating minority is abolished - as it will be eventually."

- John Cones' studies were so methodologically incompetent that they show absolutely nothing, and the "dominating minority" will never be "abolished" - unless you mean exterminated - because the U.S. Constitution doesn't allow for it.

However, the "dominant" group will eventually cease to be a "minority" as more and more people become involved with the industry, and the current participants eventually retire and die, and are replaced with new people.


"And much "journalism" isn't billed as propaganda even though it is. For a case study on this read the New York Times."

- That's simply your opinion: you have no factual evidence to prove this.

"Over how many movies? 1? 10? 100? 1,000? Patterns of bias develop which indicate that studio releases mirror their makers."

- No, they indicate that movies reflect what their audience want to pay for tickets to see. If movies really reflected their makers' interests, 99.99% of the films released would never be made.

"But often it is."

Any such decision is completely subjective.

"Maybe some of them did."

- Serve a day in slavery, Jim, and you'll change your mind quick. The first thing slaves did when they got the chance was fly to freedom. It's a human universal.

"The past is as impossible to decipher as the future."

- If that were true, Jim, there'd be no institution called "history."

>or that Laetrile is an effective substitute for Interferon, but it's certainly not the case that the producers of Troy are now responsible for producing a film that shows that war is not an acceptable solution for infidelity.

"Since history is written by the victor, none of us have any idea what really happened in the past. Get used to it."

- Bullshit: history isn't just a "story" that someone arbitrarily creates; it's a discipline based on the evaluation of evidence, and all stories aren't equally supported by it.

>Nor are they obligated to show every viewpoint no matter how fanatical, boring, or extreme they might be. If something's boring, it should never be made at all,

"Just because it bores you doesn't mean it bores others. Every subject will
excite someone."

- But not necessarily enough to make a return on the investment, which is the key to a capitalist venture.

"The loss or gain of a movie is a function of how much it cost to make the picture, vs. the potential market less the shrinkage in the distribution chain."

- That's just a prententious way of saying "loss or gain of a movie is equal to its budget plus or minus its receipts." Once again, if something isn't likely to make money, a studio is completely justified in not making it, in a capitalist system. Maybe you'd be happier in a Communist system.

"Many things we hold as truths today started out as absurdities. When you read science, you see this pattern endlessly. Thus, I say: it is risky to brand something as "too extreme" or "fanatical." It is also risky to only absorb information that is extreme in one direction without also absorbing the extremes in the other direction."

- That's irrelevant: a film is made and released now, and its receipts will be gathered in a similar timeframe.

>- It's impossible for a studio that's releasing fictional cinema to show "all sides"

FOX could have made a start in this direction by not boycotting THE PASSION. Just because the vast majority of the people that run the studio aren't Christians is no reason why they should have "opted not to distribute Mel's film" - a euphemism for boycotting it.

- Freedom of the press says that they didn't have to make if they didn't wish to. It didn't matter; Gibson got it distributed; and it was successful, thus demonstrating that the system works.

They didn't "boycott" it; they just didn't want to make it, nor are they obligated to in any way, in the same way you aren't obligated to produce a Holocaust film.

Re(4): Propaganda
Posted on July 5, 2004 at 10:41:12 PM by James Jaeger

>- Ideally, independent verification by a neutral third party: that's the standard of journalism.

Get real. Any "party" intelligent enough to properly study and report on two sides of an issue is intelligent enough, ipso facto, to determine which side is more valid. Thus there can no longer be any neutrality at the core of the discussion. Only an ignorant "party" could sincerely study both sides of an issue and remain ignorant enough to be "neutral." Alas, this is your typical journalist.

>- The British were doing it as part of an immoral, racist institutition of exploitative colonialism that offered no representation whatsoever to the colonized individuals.

That's just your point of view as an American.

>- Much of the land was uninhabited,

It was "unihabited" because the Indians weren't such pigs as the WhiteMan who arrogantly assumed that he could "own" the planet's surface. No one owns the planet's surface. Not you, not me not so-called governments. All of the above just TAKE it by force. The Indians had it right. Us WhitePigs just took it and pushed them away with our "culture," a culture so disgusting it killed them when we brought our filthy, germ-ridden bodies even close to their pure presence. How many European invaders were killed by "filthy" Indian diseases?

>I and the largest part of the holocaust was caused simply by the Natives not having immunities to the disease carried by the colonists.

See above.

>And to a large extent, the Native Americans have legitimate grievances. That, however, doesn't relieve the British from their culpability: they were the ones that instigated the whole thing themselves.

Sure, from your POV. Ever read a book on the so-called "American Revolution" written by a contemporary Brit? Everyone has their POV.

>- But isn't labeling his work "propaganda."

No more than the advertiser. Propaganda, just like repetitive advertising, works best when it's covert or repeated so often it seems to disappear into the fabric of "culture."

>- "And now a word from our sponsors." Everything that comes between any show's breaks are commercials, as all viewers are aware, including you. When's the last time you mistaked commercials for the interceding show's programming???

In "modern" society, there are commercials every place you put your gaze. Many of these commercials are advertising books, movies and periodicals -- all vehicles of propaganda, all vehicles of someone's extreme or moderate POV.

Commercials are actually highly-stylized propaganda "hiding" in plane sight. Such creates memes. Memes thus control the collective thought of society. Duh.

>- The Times adheres to objective standards of journalism,

Oh pah-leeze . . .

>which is why episodes like the Jayson Blair incident are shocking. Op-ed collumnists label their work "opinion."

The Times is such a leftist propaganda rag it's embarrassing.

>- Except journalists adhere to objective standards agreed upon by the editors and enforced by management;

The editors may attempt to employ "objective" journalists (see above) and many idealistic journalists may think they are being objective (see above), but it's all in what's OMITTED that counts. By omitting certain sides of an issue, certain data, or over-emphasizing other sides (as the NYT is currently doing to make the Bush administration look bad in the prison scandal) -- the "news" becomes yet another propaganda vehicle for those who control or own it. Freedom of the press is thus only free for those who own a printing press.

>advertisers say anything that isn't illegal.

Legal smegal. Meaningless words.

>- Bunk: the rules are made by the FCC, and enforced by the federal government, and the studies are produced using objective standards of the experimental method.

You are so naive. I suppose you think Saudi Arabia is our friend too. Better read Robert Baer's new book, SLEEPING WITH THE DEVIL.

>- Why should there be laws at all and not anarchy? And there's lots of evidence that the laws, while not perfect, protect consumers.

PEOPLE making and following laws is not anarchy and is a civilizing force -- but special corporate interests making laws is worse than anarchy.

>- Your extreme relativism ("Truth can't be known") is bogus: the scientific method was created to separate fact from non-fact, and while it may not be possible to know absolute "truth," there are certainly many ways to vett information.

It is much easier to ascertain relative "truth" in the field of science, than in the humanities, because the humanities are infinitely more complex subjects. By comparison the universe is a pretty simple system. On the other hand the humanities, especially the system of law that has cropped up over the centuries, is an NP-complete problem (as you know).

>- That does NOT mean they aren't.

Absolutes cannot be obtained in any universe - especially the universe of the humanities. Thus to seek the absolute of "fair and balanced" in a journalistic setting is folly. It is better to admit that we cannot present all sides of data without intrinsic human bias, and thus we will naturally take a side and fight for that side to the exclusion of other sides (unless we are too stupid to reach conclusions). Let others take the other sides and thus the relative truth will get hammered out eventually in an adversarial environment.

>- Just kick a rock, and the world's objectivity will make itself clear.

You should know as a scientist that such things as Heisenberg uncertainty principal, M-theory and non-locality are calling into question what "physical" reality actually means.

>And if a guy upset with U.S. foreign policy kills your family, you'll quickly change your mind about right and wrong.

And my view of what happened will be wrong from my POV. So what? They will think it was right from their POV. Suppose you could have personally killed Hitler one day. Would you have done that? I'm sure Hitler's mother would not like you killing her precious little boy -- you terrorist, she would think.

>- The rest of the rational world defined L. Ron Hubbard as a crank, liar, and head of a destructive bogus cult which he himself didn't believe in.

You know little or nothing about Hubbard or his work so don't criticize him. I have studied his work for over 15 years. I have also studied the mainstream subjects of psychology and sociology at a mainstream university and I can assure you Hubbard didn't get it all wrong. In fact, the way he integrated data from many different disciplines could and would never have been possible by someone who had previously been indoctrinated by the so-called establishment. This gives his views a unique and original twist. Hubbard's cosmology is leaking into general society and more and more of the principals he has discovered or emphasized are being plagiarized by the so called "mainstream experts." I have my problems with Hubbard and Scientology, but only ignoramuses dismiss him and his work without having read same and participated in his courses and auditing. As far as counseling and drug therapy, no other discipline or technology is even remotely close.

>- No, it doesn't: there is a difference between right and wrong.

Sure "right" is whatever YOU believe is right and WRONG is whatever YOU believe is wrong. And you're right, this is your reality. And your reality is as valid as mine.

>- They still do. A greater number of them doesn't change that.

No what they have as a responsibility for is this: a) accumulate all the relevant data on a given subject; b) check the validity of that data against the 5 primary OUT POINTS; c) present that vetted data to support a thesis as to what the actual situation is; and then d) without any apologies take complete responsibility for that POV. When I see a news cast on Global Warming -- I want to see every possible iota of data supporting the thesis that "it doesn't exist." Then, when I flip the channel to another news cast on Global Warming I want to see every possible iota of data supporting the thesis that "it DOES exist." Then after carefully watching BOTH news casts, I want ALL THE JOURNALISTS AND ANALISTS TO SHUT THE F--- UP AND LET ME DECIDE WHETHER THERE IS GLOBAL WARMING OR NOT.

>- Untrue: serve on a jury and you'll understand the difference. Objective reality exists independently of the observer..

I'm sure OJ agrees with this thesis.

>- Bullshit: witnesses often in fact agree.

Horse, the more witnesses you bring in the greater the probability one of them will present an aberrant enough piece of evidence to create "REASONABLE" doubt. What a laugh!

>- Doesn't mean I can't agree, no matter how stupid the other points may be.

You mean if I say A, you don't tropistically say B?

>- All presentations of reality are subjective: "news" purports itself to be factual, and thus has a different standard to adhere too. Fictional entertainment doesn't, and therefore has a different burden.

Nevertheless they are all on what I will call a PROPAGANDA SCALE. On one end of the scale you might have the Scientific Method and the other side you might have Leni Riefenstahl. Somewhere in the middle is Coke and Pepsi.

>- John Cones' studies were so methodologically incompetent that they show absolutely nothing,

Not true. His study was inductive not deductive.

>and the "dominating minority" will never be "abolished" - unless you mean exterminated - because the U.S. Constitution doesn't allow for it.

It will be abolished because the public will eventually not tolerate it. Already the CEO of Warner Bros. is non-Jew, non-white. The times are a-changing Dude. And Hollywood is bowing and scraping to its new pulse-on-the-public guru: Mel Gibson. But don't get me wrong, I would not want to see Christians dominate Hollywood any more than any one else.

>However, the "dominant" group will eventually cease to be a "minority" as more and more people become involved with the industry, and the current participants eventually retire and die, and are replaced with new people.

I agree.

>- That's simply your opinion: you have no factual evidence to prove this.

Do you watch THE FACTOR? Bill O'Reilly has presented endless evidence on how profligate the New York Times has been lately.

>- No, they indicate that movies reflect what their audience want to pay for tickets to see. If movies really reflected their makers' interests, 99.99% of the films released would never be made.

Well if that were true, the studios would have financed MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING and THE PASSION as both these "movies reflect what their audience want to pay for tickets to see."

>- Serve a day in slavery, Jim, and you'll change your mind quick. The first thing slaves did when they got the chance was fly to freedom. It's a human universal.

Many slaves that were treated decently, and the majority of them were, actually enjoyed the security of slavery. That's not the PC POV however.

>>"The past is as impossible to decipher as the future."

>- If that were true, Jim, there'd be no institution called "history."

Oh, just because some institution exists that makes it valid. The Federal Reserve System exists yet this system is not valid. Mosques all over Saudi Arabia give lessons in Jew- and Christian-hating. Are they valid?

>>"Since history is written by the victor, none of us have any idea what really happened in the past. Get used to it."

>- Bullshit: history isn't just a "story" that someone arbitrarily creates; it's a discipline based on the evaluation of evidence, and all stories aren't equally supported by it.

History is the study of past realities. Put another way: It's a study of the arrangements of the atoms in the physical universe as they existed in various previous space-time slices. Since it is impossible for any given human viewpoint to accurately observe the arrangement of such atoms comprising the phenomena we call "events," history can never be known beyond the level of "opinion" or consensus of "what happened." Since these opinions are always based on antiquated artifacts and/or other opinions that were motivated by survival mechanisms peculiar to the COUNTRY, NATION, COMPANY, RACE, RELIGION, SOCIETY OR OTHER GROUP -- any rational used to substantiate a view of history will be nothing more than a product of the unconscious programming of the "historian" and his willingness to go into agreement with the memes other historians have adopted as "reality." Thus history is nothing more than a consensus of what happened made by a bunch of humans who have been programmed with their interpretations of reality. In short: The past is as impossible to decipher as the future. My theory is this: Since all of the laws of physics work no mater which way the arrow of time points, the past and the future are precisely the same phenomena. They only seem different because we are viewing entropy (the only thing that allows us to assign an arrow of time in the first place), in certain limited extended dimensions to the exclusion of others, if any.

>>"Just because it bores you doesn't mean it bores others. Every subject will excite someone."

>- But not necessarily enough to make a return on the investment, which is the key to a capitalist venture.

True, but that's why I said what I said next:

"The loss or gain of a movie is a function of how much it cost to make the picture, vs. the potential market less the shrinkage in the distribution chain."

>- That's just a prententious way of saying "loss or gain of a movie is equal to its budget plus or minus its receipts."

No it's the P&L accounting principal: PROFIT = INCOME - EXPENSES + DEBT SERVICE. If I make a movie for $500,000 and that movie grosses $10 million I have done better than a studio who makes a movie for $30 million and it grosses $60 million. In the first scenario, I will have created a positive cash flow of $9,500,000 by tying up only a half million dollars, whereas in the second scenario, $30 million is tied up to generate $60 million. Even though the profit is $29,500,000 greater in the later case, it creates a MUCH worse price to earnings ratio for the corporation. Instead of spending $30 million on a picture, you spend $500,000 on 60 pictures, I bet your odds are greater that you will generate several $60 million pictures and put may more people to work in the process. Fact of the matter is this: Hollywood PURPOSLY restricts the number of pictures made so that it can artificially increase demand in the marketplace. This was first brought to my attention by none other than Max Youngstein when he gave me a U.S. government task force report on the Hollywood-based U.S. motion picture industry. This was 1979 that I got the report, but little has changed since.

>Once again, if something isn't likely to make money, a studio is completely justified in not making it, in a capitalist system. Maybe you'd be happier in a Communist system.

The determination of "likely to make money" is often a justification to suppress something that is deemed politically incorrect by the dominating minority. In the case of THE PASSION, Jewish studio heads suppressed a Christian's movie because they feared the movie would re-ignite an anti-Secular culture. And in fact, the movie seems to be doing just this, fueled by an aging, baby boom population that his now confronting existential questions of existence.


>>"Many things we hold as truths today started out as absurdities. When you read science, you see this pattern endlessly. Thus, I say: it is risky to brand something as "too extreme" or "fanatical." It is also risky to only absorb information that is extreme in one direction without also absorbing the extremes in the other direction."

>- That's irrelevant: a film is made and released now, and its receipts will be gathered in a similar timeframe.

Whatever.

>FOX could have made a start in this direction by not boycotting THE PASSION. Just because the vast majority of the people that run the studio aren't Christians is no reason why they should have "opted not to distribute Mel's film" - a euphemism for boycotting it.

>- Freedom of the press says that they didn't have to make if they didn't wish to.

No, they boycotted the financing and distribution of it. In this case the boycott was a form of censorship. Censorship is NOT just when a government does it. That's too narrow of a definition of the word. If the MPAA studios didn't control 85% - 90% of the distribution channels as an oligopoly, the word censorship might not apply, but since they dominate and control such an overwhelming amount of the theatrical play dates, they have the same power and effect as the censor. Even though Mel got thousands of theaters to PLAY his movie AFTER THE FACT -- NONE of the independent distributors were willing to FINACE his movie nor were any of the theaters willing to commit to early play dates. Thus Mel had no other options in this "free capitalistic society" you like to point to. You cannot circumvent my argument by trying to assert "but Mel got distribution so there was no censorship." Mel HAD to use his OWN money to make the movie because NONE of the independent distributors or the exhibitors were willing to underwrite his project. This proves that the MPAA studios thus had the effect of censorship or boycott at the very least on a movie that turned out to have broad commercial merit.


>It didn't matter; Gibson got it distributed; and it was successful, thus demonstrating that the system works.

Horse.

>They didn't "boycott" it; they just didn't want to make it, nor are they obligated to in any way, in the same way you aren't obligated to produce a Holocaust film.

Let's say the studios dominated 100% of the market instead of "only" 85% - 90% of it. How then would they be any different than a government-sponsored or communist industry? At what point of domination will you acknowledge their actions have the effect of the censor? 91 percent? . . . 95 percent ? . . . 99 percent?

James Jaeger

 

 

Movies and Propaganda
Posted on July 5, 2004 at 08:34:38 PM by John Cones

Albert Schweitzer was once quoted as saying that the " . . . organized political, social and religious associations of our time are at work to induce individual man not to arrive at his convictions by his own thinking but to take as his own, such convictions as they keep ready-made for him." This book and its companion volumes Who Really Controls Hollywood, Motion Picture Biographies and Patterns of Bias in Motion Pictures provide cumulative evidence in support of the assertion that the institution of Hollywood as controlled by the major studio/distributors is also at work to induce individuals not to arrive at their convictions by their own thinking but to take as their own, such convictions as Hollywood keeps ready-made for them. In other words, Hollywood movies, taken as a whole, represent the systematic propagation of information reflecting the views and interests of those people who control the medium. And of course, the most dangerous propaganda is that which we do not realize is propaganda, and propagandist feature films disguised as entertainment follow that maxim exceedingly well.
Walter Lippmann (speaking about democratic governments and public policy generally) observed that in any society, the insider group tends to feel that "[t]he public must be put in its place . . . so that we may live free of the trampling and the roar of a bewildered herd . . . If they cannot be subdued by force . . . " Lippmann says the insiders assert that
" . . . their thoughts must be efficiently controlled; lacking coercive force, authority can only turn to indoctrination to achieve the essential ends . . . " Thus, as Koppes and Black report, "[s]ome view . . . propaganda as a positive alternative to coercion of the population."
Propaganda is defined as the dissemination of ideas, facts or allegations with the expressed intent of furthering one's cause or of damaging an opposing cause. It is the " . . . systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those people advocating such a doctrine or cause."
As Rebert Merton observes, "[m]ass persuasion is not manipulative when it provides access to the pertinent facts; it is manipulative when the appeal to sentiment is used to the exclusion of pertinent information." Of course, that is exactly what Hollywood films tend to do, " . . . appeal to sentiment . . . " to the exclusion of a great deal of " . . . pertinent information."
MIT professor Noam Chomsky further explains that a " . . . principle familiar to propagandists is that the doctrines to be instilled in the target audience should not be articulated: that would only expose them to reflection, inquiry, and, very likely, ridicule. The proper procedure is to drill them home by constantly presupposing them, so that they become the very condition for discourse." Numerous false doctrines about the U.S. film industry are routinely circulated as "presuppositions" by the "mouth-piece" of the MPAA, Jack Valenti. On certain issues relating to the film business, Valenti is the chief propagandist of the major studio distributors (see discussions at "The Worlds Greatest PR Machine" and "Myth and Misinformation" in this book's companion volume How the Movie Wars Were Won). Other doctrines or beliefs are routinely and consistently set forth and pre-supposed truths in
numerous Hollywood motion pictures (see Patterns of Bias in Motion Picture Content and Motion Picture Biographies).
British author Alexander Cockburn admits to a rather negative view of what Hollywood has accomplished around the world:
"Sometimes the American film industry's mundane economic interests were clothed in exalted language, as when the head of Paramount told the New York Times in 1946, 'We, the industry, recognize the need for informing people in foreign lands about the things that have made America a great country, and we think we know how to put across the message of our democracy.' Of course, while mythology tells us that this message was conveyed through the irresistibly combined charm of American stars, stories and production values, it has actually been force-fed to the world through the careful engineering of taste, ruthless commercial clout, arm-twisting by the U.S. departments of Commerce and State, threats of reverse trade embargoes and other such heavy artillery."
In the late '80s, producer David Puttnam said: "In short, cinema is propaganda. Benign or malign, social or anti-social, the factual nature of its responsibility cannot be avoided." Puttnam also told Bill Moyers in 1989, that "[e]very single movie has within it an element of propaganda . . . " Also writing in the late '80s, film historian George MacDonald Frazer wrote that every " . . . generation is brainwashed, and brainwashes itself . . . " All films, according to Frazer, " . . . may be regarded as a sort of propaganda . . . There is not necessarily anything sinister about this; the most telling propaganda is not that which is manufactured by the mischievous, but that which the author genuinely accepts himself . . . Film-makers' outlooks, incidentally, can be eccentric . . . "
In addition, contemporary writer, director, producer, Reginald Hudlin (House Party and Boomerang) says: "Blacks need to see a greater diversity of images . . . It is both healthy and entertaining to see black people as they actually are. That may not be necessarily all peaches and cream, but if you make good art, if you tell the truth and the character, whether he's a doctor or a pimp, is a fully dimensional human being, then that's the most successful propaganda you can make." Also, Michael Medved, writing as recently as 1992, stated that "[m]ost (film) projects are designed . . . to reach a mass audience--though even such commercial ventures are often marred by shocking or propagandistic elements that have been incongruously imbedded within the material."
Finally, Koppes and Black contend that "[a]ccess to information is crucial to democratic citizenship; hence Americans have usually regarded propaganda, with its connotations of tainted information, with suspicion." That is why, of course, that much of the Hollywood insider community would want us to believe that their films are not propagandistic and that only governments disseminate propaganda. On the other hand, actress Bette Midler at least admits that " . . . movies are like propaganda. They are like instruction
. . . " she says, " . . . like messages, and you can't be vague about what you are saying. If you don't have a vision, you are just acting someone else's point of view."
Early Film Propaganda--In any case, as early as 1898, " . . . during the Spanish-American War (the Vitagraph Company) . . . produced Tearing Down the Spanish Flag . . . " described by the Katz Film Encyclopedia as " . . . probably the world's first propaganda film
. . . During WWI, (James Stuart Blackton) directed and produced a series of patriotic propaganda films, the most famous of which, and which he also wrote, was The Battle Cry of Peace--A Call to Arms Against War (1915), based on a hypothetical attack on New York City by a foreign invader."
Thus, film " . . . became an instrument of propaganda in its early years. Lenin considered film 'the most important art,' and popes, presidents, and press agents concurred. During World War I American films such as The Beast of Berlin and My Four Years in Germany touched off anti-German riots in some cities. D.W. Griffith turned his masterful touch to Allied propaganda with Hearts of the World, starring Lillian Gish, in 1918. The Soviet Union had its propaganda masterpieces such as Sergei Eisenstein's Potemkin while Nazi Germany could boast of Leni Riefenstah's Triumph of the Will. In any consideration of propaganda, film took a leading role."
The Griffith propaganda film Hearts of the World was made in partnership with Adolph Zukor. The film " . . . netted a quick profit at the box office and helped ease Griffith's financial burdens." Griffith's The Girl Who Stayed At Home (1919) was also " . . . intended as a propaganda piece to help the U.S. government popularize the idea of the selective draft." Actor Karl Dane (Karl Daen) came to Hollywood from Copenhagen during WWI and " . . . impersonated Chancellor von Bethmann-Hollweg in three anti-German propaganda features of 1918-19." He also appeared as the " . . . tobacco-chewing doughboy in the WWI epic The Big Parade."

Some of the early Hollywood film moguls themselves recognized that movies can be propaganda. For example, Harry Warner, upon the advent of sound with motion pictures, actually stated: "We think of the film as the greatest of all the media for propaganda . . . (with sound, it) may even serve to eliminate war among the nations." Also, as noted above, certain foreign leaders recognized the essential nature of movies. Lenin, again " . . . intended that the cinema first and foremost should provide the new revolutionary regime with its most effective weapon of agitation, propaganda, and education."
During the 1930s the " . . . antagonism to propaganda was reinforced by the suspicion that British propaganda had helped maneuver the country into war in 1917." Also, during this period, according to Lester Friedman, " . . . most Hollywood film producers attempted to ignore events in Europe as much as possible, lest they be accused of edging America into the war. Once World War II was declared, however, Hollywood plunged headlong into the propaganda business, much to the delight of the supportive federal government." As can seen from the discussion below, Friedman's observation appear to be somewhat influenced by what he would like to believe "most Hollywood film producers" were supposedly doing, while omitting a reference to the fact that some Hollywood producers (as reported by Koppes and Black), were in fact doing exactly what Friedman suggests the majority was avoiding, (i.e., making movies designed to edge America into the war).
Fraser also states that "[i]t is common to suggest that films of the thirties, and especially of the forties, were vehicles of propaganda." But he appears to be a bit more honest than Friedman. Fraser says: "Of course they were. The cinema was the most powerful propaganda medium in history . . . during the war it was employed to the full, as television documentaries are never tired of pointing out . . . we knew it was propaganda, and we were all for it . . . Does it ever occur to modern cinemagoers that Dirty Harry and Animal House and Full Metal Jacket and Kramer vs Kramer may be propaganda, too, whether their makers know it or not?" While Fraser admits that many films are propagandistic, he deftly avoided following up on his own earlier statement about films of the thirties and forties by limiting his propaganda label to film released "during the war". As noted below, his earlier statement about films in the thirties also being propaganda appears to be just as accurate. Evenso, most spokespersons for the film industry have denied that such films were propagandistic. It would be more honest to admit that most films are propagandistic. Then, the discussion could move on toward just what point of view is being promoted through film.
One contemporary author, an attorney and a somewhat famous television producer have finally been a bit more forthright about the essential nature of motion pictures. Author Ronald Brownstein (The Power and the Glitter) writing in 1992, reports that the" . . . emerging mindset in Hollywood . . . " reflects " . . . a mass attempt at organizing the industry for a mass public-education campaign . . . " Of course, that is nothing more than using movies as a propaganda vehicle.
Also, Los Angeles attorney Bonnie Reiss and television producer and Norman Lear have both created organizations (the Earth Communications Office and the Environmental Media Association, respectively) specifically for the purpose of insinuating
" . . . environmental messages into television programs and movies . . . the two groups shared a common approach to political communications. Each was built on the belief that, through

its dominant position in the culture, Hollywood can change political attitudes and personal behavior.
As the Lear' organization argued in a message to supporters, 'Films, television programs and music have a unique ability to infuse the popular culture with a particular message . . . the public transmission of private propaganda disguised as entertainment.'" In this single statement Hollywood liberal Norman Lear and his organization admitted what so many others in Hollywood have routinely denied: that films can influence behavior (Why else would it be important to "infuse the popular culture with a particular message?) and that movies are propaganda disguised as entertainment.

 

 

The new face of Hollywood
Posted on July 9, 2004 at 09:40:00 PM by Paka

"Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush were their front men."

Speaking of gentile front men...


The new face of Hollywood
By Thomas Doherty | July 8, 2004

LAST WEEK Dan Glickman, former secretary of agriculture in the
Clinton administration, was appointed to replace Jack Valenti as
president of the Motion Picture Association of America. Not exactly a
high-profile player in either Washington or Hollywood, Glickman was
an unexpected choice. More interesting, though, the selection broke
with an unspoken Hollywood tradition. Glickman is Jewish, and for
more than 80 years the job description for the Motion Picture
Association presidency has read: Only politically connected
Christians of unassailable moral character need apply.

Ever since its formation in 1922, when a series of made-for-tabloid
overdoses, orgies, and murders seemed to confirm suspicions that the
main business of Hollywood was to corrupt the fiber of Anglo-
Protestant America, the association has chosen men of a certain type
to catch the flak and take the heat.

Besieged studio moguls first turned to Will H. Hays, former postmaster general in the administration of Warren G. Harding. Hays was the perfect front man for a disreputable industry dominated by
foreign-born Jews: a nondrinking, non-smoking Presbyterian church
elder from Indiana who uttered platitudes with a straight face.

Making good on a promise to bring virtue to the Sodom on the Pacific,
he gave his name to the Hays Office (formally the Production Code
Administration), the censorship agency that kept the American screen
free of cleavage and controversy. Under Hays, Hollywood enjoyed a
golden age that glittered throughout the Great Depression and World
War II.

In 1945 the Motion Picture Association opted for an organization man
more in tune with the postwar ethos. The urbane and energetic Eric
Johnston, former president of the Chamber of Commerce, had the
advantage of being both cosmopolitan and Episcopalian. Unfortunately,
he was fated to confront a trio of threats more ominous than bluenose
censorship: the House Committee on Un-American Activities, the
Department of Justice, and, worst of all, television.

In the wake of the 1947 House hearings on alleged Soviet subversion
in the motion picture industry, Johnston inaugurated the blacklist
era by pledging, on behalf of the major studios, never to "knowingly
employ a communist."

The next year another branch of the government delivered a more
crippling blow by demanding that the studios divest their theater
chains, thereby destroying the vertically integrated monopoly that
had sustained the classic studio system.

As for television -- you know that story. In 1963 Johnston died and
the association scrambled to find a permanent successor. After a
prolonged search, the organization settled on Valenti, a former
adviser to Lyndon Johnson and a Roman Catholic. He took the reins at
a pivotal moment. Television was ascendent, the studios were
moribund, and the baby boom generation was deserting the movies in
droves.

Valenti's first major initiative was to eliminate the last vestiges
of in-house censorship. In 1968, the Motion Picture Association
abolished the Production Code and adopted the present alphabet
ratings systems. Under Hays and Johnston, Hollywood had said "Be
assured." Under Valenti, it said "Be forewarned."

Over the years, in any list of the highest-paid lobbyists in
Washington, Valenti came in at or near the top. By any reckoning, he
was worth every penny. With his tanned good looks and serene
demeanor, he presented a smooth motion picture image for the
television age. When clerics or politicians railed against the moral
decadence and excessive violence projected from the Hollywood screen,
he spoke reverently about the First Amendment and reminded critics
that his industry voluntarily restricted its audience -- while
neglecting to mention that any kid who couldn't sneak into an R-rated
film was an underachiever.

Of course, for the media conglomerates that are today's entertainment
providers, the First Amendment is less meaningful than laws dealing
with interstate commerce and copyrights. During Valenti's tenure,
neither Republican nor Democratic justice departments probed too
closely into the ways newfangled synergy resembles old-fashioned
monopoly.

Yet in terms or feathering the Hollywood nest egg, Valenti's greatest
achievement was surely the Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998
(derided by foes as "the Mickey Mouse Protection Act"), which
extended corporate and author copyrights for an additional 20 years.
Indeed, copyright protection and piracy prevention now make up the
biggest part of the job.

Facing such daunting challenges, the Motion Picture Association
decided to take some affirmative action and reached out beyond the
usual talent pool to tap Glickman for this glamorous gig with such
enviable job security. In the future, perhaps, a Christian or Jewish
woman might someday assume the post -- assuming she's politically
connected and morally unassailable.

Thomas Doherty is chairman of the film studies program at Brandeis
University.



What is Hollywood?
Posted on July 14, 2004 at 11:59:39 AM by John Cones

Here's one view about what Hollywood really is. The Hollywood-based U.S. film industry, otherwise known as "Hollywood" is an elaborate and sophisticated system, developed and maintained by four generations of a very narrow "insider's group" over a period of approximately 100 years, that is designed to take good ideas and money from outsiders, to exploit those ideas in motion pictures and keep most of the money. The system has been created and is maintained through the use of several hundred documented business practices that can be and have been accurately described in various court cases, law review articles, trade publications, magazine articles and books as unfair, unethical, unconscionable, anti-competitive, predatory and illegal. The constituents of the Hollywood insider's group maintain their position of control through the use of nepotism, cronyism, favoritism and other forms of discrimination directed toward outsiders generally. The Hollywood insiders have amassed great wealth and have used that wealth to gain political power and influence at all levels of government (particularly at the federal level), so that their business practices are not challenged by governmental authority. And, if anyone points out these well-documented facts about Hollywood, some of the Hollywood apologists will attack you with their special brand of name-calling, thus most people who know the truth about Hollywood do not have the courage to speak out. Thus, in effect, Hollywood is the perfect crime.

John Cones

Re(1): What is Hollywood?
Posted on July 14, 2004 at 11:44:23 PM by B. Willis

True.

 

Hollywood Macro-Economics
Posted on July 28, 2004 at 04:42:06 PM by John Cones

Hollywood Macro-Economics

Thousands upon thousands of creative people are drawn to the film capitol of the world every year. They come to express their creative visions through that important medium called feature film. Unfortunately, most are suffering under the delusion that the Hollywood-based U.S. film industry is a merit system, that talent will prevail and their efforts will be rewarded. They are often mystified to discover that their efforts only lead to failure or mediocrity, and even in the few instances of apparent success, much of the financial rewards are drained off by others who provide support services for such talent. And, most of those are Hollywood insiders.

Many in that creative community eventually abandon all hope and leave, while some are too embarrassed to go home, so they stay and do something else to get by. Still others lose their self-esteem, and are driven to drink, drugs and/or suicide. Some come to correctly recognize or suspect along the way that part of the problem is that Hollywood is not a merit system at all, that it is a system dominated by a few, mostly insiders who share a common tribal heritage with many of those who founded the Hollywood of old, and whose loyalties are primarily to each other, which means that whenever opportunities arise, they give the best jobs to their relatives, friends and friends of friends, arbitrarily excluding the outsiders, who can only get so far on their abilities.

Most people feel that nothing can be done about the situation, because if anyone states the truth about the Hollywood insiders, such persons are immediately labeled as prejudice in the very worst way, which in this society is often perceived to be more horrible than any other form of prejudice because we have been so conditioned by thousands of movies graphically demonstrating what that particularly brand of prejudice can do.

So, the flood of creative actors, actresses, writers, producers, directors and others continues, year after year. Few outside the film industry would believe what is really going on. Those inside the film industry are too afraid to speak out. They’d never eat lunch in this town again, as the old saying goes. Even when confronted with the truth, some of the less informed and more naive amongst us insist on supporting this corrupt system. The law of supply and demand is way out of whack. Too many films are being produced and too few distributors are available to distribute them. Ideas and even scripts are stolen with impunity. After all, there really are no satisfactory or realistic remedies to protect the owners of intellectual property from theft in the bowls of the Hollywood machine. Certainly, none worth jeopardizing a career over, which is the most direct result of any such challenge.

And, of course, our film and arts schools around the country keep turning out more and more filmmakers, actors, directors and writers who continue to make too many films, and distributors eagerly take advantage of that imbalance by manipulating the revenue stream however they choose, because they have the leverage, or simply because they can. Film commissions around the country continue to compete with each other for the patronage of a film to be shot in their locale because it benefits the local economy, without giving much thought to taking any steps to encouraging the development of a truly indigenous film industry, that can provide its own financing and distribution.

Our Congress men and women can be of no help, because they are often so very dependent on the excessive money that flows into the hands of the Hollywood insiders and subsequently into their re-election cofers. Law makers at various governmental levels have been prevailed upon time and again by local film communities to pass laws creating incentives to encourage the production of more films in their area, not realizing that more production is not really the biggest need of the film industry. The industry can only be brought back to health with fewer and better films, more real competition amongst distributors, a real breakthrough in direct delivery via the Internet (not dominated by the major studios) and destruction of the stranglehold maintained by the Hollywood insiders on this important industry (a group of people, who by the way, have repeatedly used this significant medium for the communication of ideas as a propaganda tool to place and keep favored ideas and images in our collective consciousness for many years)

Maybe when more people realize how they have been cheated out of their chance to make it in their chosen career field, robbed of a whole life or part of a life, we’ll see a real revolution, something that will shock the Hollywood insiders, and make them realize how insidious and wrong has been their scheme.

This is not an insoluble problem. Instead of feeding into the mouth of the dragon, we must get the word out to film schools and film organizations all across the country, that there is a glut of product (i.e., too many feature films being produced each year by too many film producers). There are too many actors, actresses, directors, screen writers, etc. chasing after too few paying jobs. Those circumstances simply play into the hands of the distributors who have used that over supply of films and the over supply of the people who play key roles in producing films to create leverage that in turn allows them to exploit all the rest (who are on the wrong side of the law of supply and demand).

Thus, our film schools and other schools turning out the creative people, along with the film organizations helping to provide educational seminars for filmmakers, need to recognize the realities of the marketplace and place more (or at least some) of their focus on the macro-economics of the industry: begin educating people on how to start up distribution companies, on how to become exhibitors, how to create opportunities for commercially exhibiting films online so as to eliminate the need for a distributor, figure out a way to make money off of film shorts and create film school affiliated distribution companies, not more production companies. Some of those who think they want to be producers must be encouraged to become distributors instead, to create film completion funds and P&A funds instead of production funds, to buy theatres and video stores and learn the business from the that end first. Developing a feel for what movies people like could be the most important part of a filmmaker’s education.

At the same time, we need to convince film commissions all across the country to broaden their mission to include creating wholly indigenous film industries, still willing to assist and encourage local film shoots for projects funded elsewhere, but also encouraging and exploring ways to help local filmmakers produce and distribute their films profitably. Ultimately, the power must be taken away from Hollywood distributors and the Hollywood insider crowd, because that power has been and continues to be abused. We need more diversity at all levels of the film industry, because as more and more people are beginning to realize, the motion picture is a significant medium for the communication of ideas, and all elements of our society must have fair access to this important medium.

John Cones

 

Re(1): Hollywood Macro-Economics
Posted on August 14, 2004 at 11:14:34 PM by George Shelps



Many in that creative community eventually abandon all hope and leave, while some are too embarrassed to go home, so they stay and do something else to get by. Still others lose their self-esteem, and are driven to drink, drugs and/or suicide. Some come to correctly recognize or suspect along the way that part of the problem is that Hollywood is not a merit system at all, that it is a system dominated by a few, mostly insiders who share a common tribal heritage with many of those who founded the Hollywood of old, and whose loyalties are primarily to each other, which means that whenever opportunities arise, they give the best jobs to their relatives, friends and friends of friends, arbitrarily excluding the outsiders, who can only get so far on their abilities.

++Mr Cones is being melodramatic. I have friends who went to Hollywood and succeeded there. One won an Oscar, one won an Emmy, another produced a cult classic action film, another became chief production manager for Twentieth
Century Fox...all these were high school classmates from the East.

Why people don't come forward
Posted on August 12, 2004 at 06:33:01 PM by Everybody is one hit away

From Entertainment Weekly article about Chevy Chase:

"You know, everybody has disasters, says Steve Martin, a friend from
Three Amigos. "And then you have a hit and then the disasters don't
matter. So, if you think about it, everybody is just one hit away
from being exactly where they were. Chevy is one hit away. It will
happen. He'll get that hit. And he'll be back."

 

Re(1): recent letter to Mr. John Cones; encouraged me to post my thoughts...
Posted on August 2, 2004 at 06:15:12 AM by Holly Wood B

Dear Mr. John Cones,

I've been reading your writings the last couple of years on many issues regarding the film industry, and I've often thought about sharing my thoughts with you. I'm thinking now perhaps the best way I can introduce myself is to first off say, I'm not a "fan" of anything or anyone, I would boldly prefer to say that I would be the shit that hits it. However, there is a reason that I have chose to write you. Somehow your recent last two articles, have given me the extra kick in the ass that I needed. Sparing details, I would like to share with you my recent adventure in lala land, aka Hollywood. Long story to start short, I have preserved myself as a writer for nearly a decade now, knowing that if I were going to make it as a screenwriter it would take more than one "product" (scripts) to market my intellectual property and myself as a writer, as I began this new phase, as literary excited as I felt on this journey, I discovered a living hell. So here is my bottom line! I met with a producer out in LA, whom made extremely rude sexual advances toward me after he read my script, I felt equally as invaded and naked as my script, my hopes and dignity stripped down bare against the intentions of goodwill. This producer made a spectacle out of my script and spitefully handed it over to another "insider", which now is being made into a major distributed film, of course the story was twisted and turned a bit, but that's what is done as if to say "it's really not the same, just similar" At this point I'm thinking I should change my name to "sue"... for me, it is not about the fear of speaking out or the fight, I've decided to move forward with a lawsuit because I want to stand up for all "others" like myself. Not only have I preserved myself as a writer, but I've also rehearsed myself with film funding and the behind the scenes fundamentals of film making. This lead me to go out and seek private investors because the "walk the talk" was about "you have to pay to play" , but even now with this available money, it must be "all in who you know"....even with that the backstabbing is inevitable. I have recently refrained from moving ahead with this money, for one, I don't want these investors to loose their money on my film projects, and two, at this point there is no risk, it is a "catch 22" .... So, now what do I do I've asked myself over and over again, I have only one answer, and that is to not ever give up, because not only will I be failing myself and my own creative God given talent, I will be failing the many that fall stray through the cracks on the road to Hollywood and loose their hopes and dreams. Your articles are enlightening and very informative, especially on the last two issues you have written about.
Thank you John, for getting back to me. I feel if more of us come forward, we can begin what needs to be done in this industry.... WE THE PEOPLE VS. GUESS WHAT NOT WHO!

 

 

 

 

 

Question for Mr. Cones
Posted on July 30, 2004 at 05:44:28 PM by Sullivan

Why don't you place a full page ad in Variety or LA Weekly and ask people to come forward (anonymously) with their experiences?

Re(1): Question for Mr. Cones
Posted on July 31, 2004 at 11:30:12 AM by John Cones

Two reasons: people are free to post their experiences here (anonymously)and free and I don't have that kind of money.

John Cones

Re(2): Question for Mr. Cones
Posted on July 31, 2004 at 12:40:56 PM by Sullivan

"Maybe when more people realize how they have been cheated out of their chance to make it in their chosen career field, robbed of a whole life or part of a life, we’ll see a real revolution, something that will shock the Hollywood insiders"

I realize Variety would be expensive, but LA Weekly, which is a free newspaper, shouldn't be too bad. You need to get a buzz going about this site. The right people aren't finding their way here. You need to help them.

LA Weekly: Feel free to contact us (323) 465-4414 or (323) 465-7773, for your advertising needs.


Re(3): Question for Mr. Cones
Posted on August 1, 2004 at 04:22:40 PM by John Cones

Sullivan:

Better yet, why don't you pass the word to your editorial department that there is an ongoing discussion backed by a considerable amount of posted information relating to problems in the Hollywood-based U.S. film industry and if they want to meet the informational needs of the thousands of readers in the Los Angeles area who are concerned about what's happening to their film industry careers, a few stories in the LA Weekly about the FIRM site and discussion forum would appear appropriate and timely.

John Cones

Re(4): Question for Mr. Cones
Posted on August 1, 2004 at 08:26:42 PM by Sullivan

My editorial department?

Re(5): Question for Mr. Cones
Posted on August 1, 2004 at 10:04:49 PM by John Cones

When you state:

"LA Weekly: Feel free to contact us (323) 465-4414 or (323) 465-7773, for your advertising needs" as in your previous post, that suggests you work for the paper. If not, you could still alert them to the story.

John Cones

 

 

Malicious use of child actors under two years old
Posted on July 30, 2004 at 10:57:48 AM by Esteban Martinez

The local latino TV station, UNIVISION airing out of Miami Florida, is famous for its presentations of latino soaps, called NOVELAS. Many of them are filmed in Mexico or Venezuela but lately, Miami has served as backdrop.
My reason for writing is the frequent use of live children (as opposed to dolls or dummies) in many of their scripts. I have no problem with the practice but when they include babies and child actors under two years of age in scenes of violence, I find it distasteful. One scene in a Novela titled "Mariana De La Noche" depicts a crazed mother screaming loudly while mauling her child and jerking his little body in different directions. The situation's aggravated with the arrival of other actors, depicting outraged relatives, yelling and screaming. The entire episode made me sick.
Another Novela "Angel Rebelde" involves young twins crying histerically as they witness a family acting in complete hysteria due to the announced death of their mother. In both cases the tiny faces of these children depict terror and panic as they squirm to escape their tormentors. The adult actors are aware the whole thing's make believe but what about those innocent babies and children?

 

 

 

My Beef With Big Media
Posted on August 21, 2004 at 01:43:24 PM by Ted Turner

My Beef With Big Media
How government protects big media--and shuts out upstarts like me.

By Ted Turner
---------------------------------


In the late 1960s, when Turner Communications was a business of billboards and radio stations and I was spending much of my energy ocean racing, a UHF-TV station came up for sale in Atlanta. It was losing $50,000 a month and its programs were viewed by fewer than 5 percent of the market. I acquired it.

When I moved to buy a second station in Charlotte--this one worse than the first--my accountant quit in protest, and the company's board vetoed the deal. So I mortgaged my house and bought it myself. The Atlanta purchase turned into the Superstation; the Charlotte purchase--when I sold it 10 years later--gave me the capital to launch CNN.

Both purchases played a role in revolutionizing television. Both required a streak of independence and a taste for risk. And neither could happen today. In the current climate of consolidation, independent broadcasters simply don't survive for long. That's why we haven't seen a new generation of people like me or even Rupert Murdoch--independent television upstarts who challenge the big boys and force the whole industry to compete and change.

It's not that there aren't entrepreneurs eager to make their names and fortunes in broadcasting if given the chance. If nothing else, the 1990s dot-com boom showed that the spirit of entrepreneurship is alive and well in America, with plenty of investors willing to put real money into new media ventures. The difference is that Washington has changed the rules of the game. When I was getting into the television business, lawmakers and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) took seriously the commission's mandate to promote diversity, localism, and competition in the media marketplace. They wanted to make sure that the big, established networks--CBS, ABC, NBC--wouldn't forever dominate what the American public could watch on TV. They wanted independent producers to thrive. They wanted more people to be able to own TV stations. They believed in the value of competition.

So when the FCC received a glut of applications for new television stations after World War II, the agency set aside dozens of channels on the new UHF spectrum so independents could get a foothold in television. That helped me get my start 35 years ago. Congress also passed a law in 1962 requiring that TVs be equipped to receive both UHF and VHF channels. That's how I was able to compete as a UHF station, although it was never easy. (I used to tell potential advertisers that our UHF viewers were smarter than the rest, because you had to be a genius just to figure out how to tune us in.) And in 1972, the FCC ruled that cable TV operators could import distant signals. That's how we were able to beam our Atlanta station to homes throughout the South. Five years later, with the help of an RCA satellite, we were sending our signal across the nation, and the Superstation was born.


That was then.

Today, media companies are more concentrated than at any time over the past 40 years, thanks to a continual loosening of ownership rules by Washington. The media giants now own not only broadcast networks and local stations; they also own the cable companies that pipe in the signals of their competitors and the studios that produce most of the programming. To get a flavor of how consolidated the industry has become, consider this: In 1990, the major broadcast networks--ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox--fully or partially owned just 12.5 percent of the new series they aired. By 2000, it was 56.3 percent. Just two years later, it had surged to 77.5 percent.

In this environment, most independent media firms either get gobbled up by one of the big companies or driven out of business altogether. Yet instead of balancing the rules to give independent broadcasters a fair chance in the market, Washington continues to tilt the playing field to favor the biggest players. Last summer, the FCC passed another round of sweeping pro-consolidation rules that, among other things, further raised the cap on the number of TV stations a company can own.

In the media, as in any industry, big corporations play a vital role, but so do small, emerging ones. When you lose small businesses, you lose big ideas. People who own their own businesses are their own bosses. They are independent thinkers. They know they can't compete by imitating the big guys--they have to innovate, so they're less obsessed with earnings than they are with ideas. They are quicker to seize on new technologies and new product ideas. They steal market share from the big companies, spurring them to adopt new approaches. This process promotes competition, which leads to higher product and service quality, more jobs, and greater wealth. It's called capitalism.

But without the proper rules, healthy capitalist markets turn into sluggish oligopolies, and that is what's happening in media today. Large corporations are more profit-focused and risk-averse. They often kill local programming because it's expensive, and they push national programming because it's cheap--even if their decisions run counter to local interests and community values. Their managers are more averse to innovation because they're afraid of being fired for an idea that fails. They prefer to sit on the sidelines, waiting to buy the businesses of the risk-takers who succeed.

Unless we have a climate that will allow more independent media companies to survive, a dangerously high percentage of what we see--and what we don't see--will be shaped by the profit motives and political interests of large, publicly traded conglomerates. The economy will suffer, and so will the quality of our public life. Let me be clear: As a business proposition, consolidation makes sense. The moguls behind the mergers are acting in their corporate interests and playing by the rules. We just shouldn't have those rules. They make sense for a corporation. But for a society, it's like over-fishing the oceans. When the independent businesses are gone, where will the new ideas come from? We have to do more than keep media giants from growing larger; they're already too big. We need a new set of rules that will break these huge companies to pieces.


The big squeeze

In the 1970s, I became convinced that a 24-hour all-news network could make money, and perhaps even change the world. But when I invited two large media corporations to invest in the launch of CNN, they turned me down. I couldn't believe it. Together we could have launched the network for a fraction of what it would have taken me alone; they had all the infrastructure, contacts, experience, knowledge. When no one would go in with me, I risked my personal wealth to start CNN. Soon after our launch in 1980, our expenses were twice what we had expected and revenues half what we had projected. Our losses were so high that our loans were called in. I refinanced at 18 percent interest, up from 9, and stayed just a step ahead of the bankers. Eventually, we not only became profitable, but also changed the nature of news--from watching something that happened to watching it as it happened.

But even as CNN was getting its start, the climate for independent broadcasting was turning hostile. This trend began in 1984, when the FCC raised the number of stations a single entity could own from seven--where it had been capped since the 1950s--to 12. A year later, it revised its rule again, adding a national audience-reach cap of 25 percent to the 12 station limit--meaning media companies were prohibited from owning TV stations that together reached more than 25 percent of the national audience. In 1996, the FCC did away with numerical caps altogether and raised the audience-reach cap to 35 percent. This wasn't necessarily bad for Turner Broadcasting; we had already achieved scale. But seeing these rules changed was like watching someone knock down the ladder I had already climbed.

Meanwhile, the forces of consolidation focused their attention on another rule, one that restricted ownership of content. Throughout the 1980s, network lobbyists worked to overturn the so-called Financial Interest and Syndication Rules, or fin-syn, which had been put in place in 1970, after federal officials became alarmed at the networks' growing control over programming. As the FCC wrote in the fin-syn decision: "The power to determine form and content rests only in the three networks and is exercised extensively and exclusively by them, hourly and daily." In 1957, the commission pointed out, independent companies had produced a third of all network shows; by 1968, that number had dropped to 4 percent. The rules essentially forbade networks from profiting from reselling programs that they had already aired.

This had the result of forcing networks to sell off their syndication arms, as CBS did with Viacom in 1973. Once networks no longer produced their own content, new competition was launched, creating fresh opportunities for independents.

For a time, Hollywood and its production studios were politically strong enough to keep the fin-syn rules in place. But by the early 1990s, the networks began arguing that their dominance had been undercut by the rise of independent broadcasters, cable networks, and even videocassettes, which they claimed gave viewers enough choice to make fin-syn unnecessary. The FCC ultimately agreed--and suddenly the broadcast networks could tell independent production studios, "We won't air it unless we own it." The networks then bought up the weakened studios or were bought out by their own syndication arms, the way Viacom turned the tables on CBS, buying the network in 2000. This silenced the major political opponents of consolidation.

Even before the repeal of fin-syn, I could see that the trend toward consolidation spelled trouble for independents like me. In a climate of consolidation, there would be only one sure way to win: bring a broadcast network, production studios, and cable and satellite systems under one roof. If you didn't have it inside, you'd have to get it outside--and that meant, increasingly, from a large corporation that was competing with you. It's difficult to survive when your suppliers are owned by your competitors. I had tried and failed to buy a major broadcast network, but the repeal of fin-syn turned up the pressure. Since I couldn't buy a network, I bought MGM to bring more content in-house, and I kept looking for other ways to gain scale. In the end, I found the only way to stay competitive was to merge with Time Warner and relinquish control of my companies.

Today, the only way for media companies to survive is to own everything up and down the media chain--from broadcast and cable networks to the sitcoms, movies, and news broadcasts you see on those stations; to the production studios that make them; to the cable, satellite, and broadcast systems that bring the programs to your television set; to the Web sites you visit to read about those programs; to the way you log on to the Internet to view those pages. Big media today wants to own the faucet, pipeline, water, and the reservoir. The rain clouds come next.


Supersizing networks

Throughout the 1990s, media mergers were celebrated in the press and otherwise seemingly ignored by the American public. So, it was easy to assume that media consolidation was neither controversial nor problematic. But then a funny thing happened.

In the summer of 2003, the FCC raised the national audience-reach cap from 35 percent to 45 percent. The FCC also allowed corporations to own a newspaper and a TV station in the same market and permitted corporations to own three TV stations in the largest markets, up from two, and two stations in medium-sized markets, up from one. Unexpectedly, the public rebelled. Hundreds of thousands of citizens complained to the FCC. Groups from the National Organization for Women to the National Rifle Association demanded that Congress reverse the ruling. And like-minded lawmakers, including many long-time opponents of media consolidation, took action, pushing the cap back down to 35, until--under strong White House pressure--it was revised back up to 39 percent. This June, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit threw out the rules that would have allowed corporations to own more television and radio stations in a single market, let stand the higher 39 percent cap, and also upheld the rule permitting a corporation to own a TV station and a newspaper in the same market; then, it sent the issues back to the same FCC that had pushed through the pro-consolidation rules in the first place.

In reaching its 2003 decision, the FCC did not argue that its policies would advance its core objectives of diversity, competition, and localism. Instead, it justified its decision by saying that there was already a lot of diversity, competition, and localism in the media--so it wouldn't hurt if the rules were changed to allow more consolidation. Their decision reads: "Our current rules inadequately account for the competitive presence of cable, ignore the diversity-enhancing value of the Internet, and lack any sound bases for a national audience reach cap." Let's pick that assertion apart.

First, the "competitive presence of cable" is a mirage. Broadcast networks have for years pointed to their loss of prime-time viewers to cable networks--but they are losing viewers to cable networks that they themselves own. Ninety percent of the top 50 cable TV stations are owned by the same parent companies that own the broadcast networks. Yes, Disney's ABC network has lost viewers to cable networks. But it's losing viewers to cable networks like Disney's ESPN, Disney's ESPN2, and Disney's Disney Channel. The media giants are getting a deal from Congress and the FCC because their broadcast networks are losing share to their own cable networks. It's a scam.

Second, the decision cites the "diversity-enhancing value of the Internet." The FCC is confusing diversity with variety. The top 20 Internet news sites are owned by the same media conglomerates that control the broadcast and cable networks. Sure, a hundred-person choir gives you a choice of voices, but they're all singing the same song.

The FCC says that we have more media choices than ever before. But only a few corporations decide what we can choose. That is not choice. That's like a dictator deciding what candidates are allowed to stand for parliamentary elections, and then claiming that the people choose their leaders. Different voices do not mean different viewpoints, and these huge corporations all have the same viewpoint--they want to shape government policy in a way that helps them maximize profits, drive out competition, and keep getting bigger.

Because the new technologies have not fundamentally changed the market, it's wrong for the FCC to say that there are no "sound bases for a national audience-reach cap." The rationale for such a cap is the same as it has always been. If there is a limit to the number of TV stations a corporation can own, then the chance exists that after all the corporations have reached this limit, there may still be some stations left over to be bought and run by independents. A lower limit would encourage the entry of independents and promote competition. A higher limit does the opposite.


Triple blight

The loss of independent operators hurts both the media business and its citizen-customers. When the ownership of these firms passes to people under pressure to show quick financial results in order to justify the purchase, the corporate emphasis instantly shifts from taking risks to taking profits. When that happens, quality suffers, localism suffers, and democracy itself suffers.


Loss of Quality

The Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans exerts a negative influence on society, because it discourages people who want to climb up the list from giving more money to charity. The Nielsen ratings are dangerous in a similar way--because they scare companies away from good shows that don't produce immediate blockbuster ratings. The producer Norman Lear once asked, "You know what ruined television?" His answer: when The New York Times began publishing the Nielsen ratings. "That list every week became all anyone cared about."

When all companies are quarterly earnings-obsessed, the market starts punishing companies that aren't yielding an instant return. This not only creates a big incentive for bogus accounting, but also it inhibits the kind of investment that builds economic value. America used to know this. We used to be a nation of farmers. You can't plant something today and harvest tomorrow. Had Turner Communications been required to show earnings growth every quarter, we never would have purchased those first two TV stations.

When CNN reported to me, if we needed more money for Kosovo or Baghdad, we'd find it. If we had to bust the budget, we busted the budget. We put journalism first, and that's how we built CNN into something the world wanted to watch. I had the power to make these budget decisions because they were my companies. I was an independent entrepreneur who controlled the majority of the votes and could run my company for the long term. Top managers in these huge media conglomerates run their companies for the short term. After we sold Turner Broadcasting to Time Warner, we came under such earnings pressure that we had to cut our promotion budget every year at CNN to make our numbers. Media mega-mergers inevitably lead to an overemphasis on short-term earnings.

You can see this overemphasis in the spread of reality television. Shows like "Fear Factor" cost little to produce--there are no actors to pay and no sets to maintain--and they get big ratings. Thus, American television has moved away from expensive sitcoms and on to cheap thrills. We've gone from "Father Knows Best" to "Who Wants to Marry My Dad?", and from "My Three Sons" to "My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance."

The story of Grant Tinker and Mary Tyler Moore's production studio, MTM, helps illustrate the point. When the company was founded in 1969, Tinker and Moore hired the best writers they could find and then left them alone--and were rewarded with some of the best shows of the 1970s. But eventually, MTM was bought by a company that imposed budget ceilings and laid off employees. That company was later purchased by Rev. Pat Robertson; then, he was bought out by Fox. Exit "The Mary Tyler Moore Show." Enter "The Littlest Groom."


Loss of localism

Consolidation has also meant a decline in the local focus of both news and programming. After analyzing 23,000 stories on 172 news programs over five years, the Project for Excellence in Journalism found that big media news organizations relied more on syndicated feeds and were more likely to air national stories with no local connection.

That's not surprising. Local coverage is expensive, and thus will tend be a casualty in the quest for short-term earnings. In 2002, Fox Television bought Chicago's Channel 50 and eliminated all of the station's locally produced shows. One of the cancelled programs (which targeted pre-teens) had scored a perfect rating for educational content in a 1999 University of Pennsylvania study, according to The Chicago Tribune. That accolade wasn't enough to save the program. Once the station's ownership changed, so did its mission and programming.

Loss of localism also undercuts the public-service mission of the media, and this can have dangerous consequences. In early 2002, when a freight train derailed near Minot, N.D., releasing a cloud of anhydrous ammonia over the town, police tried to call local radio stations, six of which are owned by radio mammoth Clear Channel Communications. According to news reports, it took them over an hour to reach anyone--no one was answering the Clear Channel phone. By the next day, 300 people had been hospitalized, many partially blinded by the ammonia. Pets and livestock died. And Clear Channel continued beaming its signal from headquarters in San Antonio, Texas--some 1,600 miles away.


Loss of democratic debate

When media companies dominate their markets, it undercuts our democracy. Justice Hugo Black, in a landmark media-ownership case in 1945, wrote: "The First Amendment rests on the assumption that the widest possible dissemination of information from diverse and antagonistic sources is essential to the

welfare of the public."

These big companies are not antagonistic; they do billions of dollars in business with each other. They don't compete; they cooperate to inhibit competition. You and I have both felt the impact. I felt it in 1981, when CBS, NBC, and ABC all came together to try to keep CNN from covering the White House. You've felt the impact over the past two years, as you saw little news from ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, Fox, or CNN on the FCC's actions. In early 2003, the Pew Research Center found that 72 percent of Americans had heard "nothing at all" about the proposed FCC rule changes. Why? One never knows for sure, but it must have been clear to news directors that the more they covered this issue, the harder it would be for their corporate bosses to get the policy result they wanted.

A few media conglomerates now exercise a near-monopoly over television news. There is always a risk that news organizations can emphasize or ignore stories to serve their corporate purpose. But the risk is far greater when there are no independent competitors to air the side of the story the corporation wants to ignore. More consolidation has often meant more news-sharing. But closing bureaus and downsizing staff have more than economic consequences. A smaller press is less capable of holding our leaders accountable. When Viacom merged two news stations it owned in Los Angeles, reports The American Journalism Review, "field reporters began carrying microphones labeled KCBS on one side and KCAL on the other." This was no accident. As the Viacom executive in charge told The Los Angeles Business Journal: "In this duopoly, we should be able to control

the news in the marketplace."

This ability to control the news is especially worrisome when a large media organization is itself the subject of a news story. Disney's boss, after buying ABC in 1995, was quoted in LA Weekly as saying, "I would prefer ABC not cover Disney." A few days later, ABC killed a "20/20" story critical of the parent company.

But networks have also been compromised when it comes to non-news programs which involve their corporate parent's business interests. General Electric subsidiary NBC Sports raised eyebrows by apologizing to the Chinese government for Bob Costas's reference to China's "problems with human rights" during a telecast of the Atlanta Olympic Games. China, of course, is a huge market for GE products.

Consolidation has given big media companies new power over what is said not just on the air, but off it as well. Cumulus Media banned the Dixie Chicks on its 42 country music stations for 30 days after lead singer Natalie Maines criticized President Bush for the war in Iraq. It's hard to imagine Cumulus would have been so bold if its listeners had more of a choice in country music stations. And Disney recently provoked an uproar when it prevented its subsidiary Miramax from distributing Michael Moore's film Fahrenheit 9/11. As a senior Disney executive told The New York Times: "It's not in the interest of any major corporation to be dragged into a highly charged partisan political battle." Follow the logic, and you can see what lies ahead: If the only media companies are major corporations, controversial and dissenting views may not be aired at all.

Naturally, corporations say they would never suppress speech. But it's not their intentions that matter; it's their capabilities. Consolidation gives them more power to tilt the news and cut important ideas out of the public debate. And it's precisely that power that the rules should prevent.


Independents' day

This is a fight about freedom--the freedom of independent entrepreneurs to start and run a media business, and the freedom of citizens to get news, information, and entertainment from a wide variety of sources, at least some of which are truly independent and not run by people facing the pressure of quarterly earnings reports. No one should underestimate the danger. Big media companies want to eliminate all ownership limits. With the removal of these limits, immense media power will pass into the hands of a very few corporations and

individuals.

What will programming be like when it's produced for no other purpose than profit? What will news be like when there are no independent news organizations to go after stories the big corporations avoid? Who really wants to find out? Safeguarding the welfare of the public cannot be the first concern of a large publicly traded media company. Its job is to seek profits. But if the government writes the rules in a way that encourages the entry into the market of entrepreneurs--men and women with big dreams, new ideas, and a willingness to take long-term risks--the economy will be stronger, and the country will be better off.

I freely admit: When I was in the media business, especially after the federal government changed the rules to favor large companies, I tried to sweep the board, and I came within one move of owning every link up and down the media chain. Yet I felt then, as I do now, that the government was not doing its job. The role of the government ought to be like the role of a referee in boxing, keeping the big guys from killing the little guys. If the little guy gets knocked down, the referee should send the big guy to his corner, count the little guy out, and then help him back up. But today the government has cast down its duty, and media competition is less like boxing and more like professional wrestling: The wrestler and the referee are both kicking the guy on the canvas.

At this late stage, media companies have grown so large and powerful, and their dominance has become so detrimental to the survival of small, emerging companies, that there remains only one alternative: bust up the big conglomerates. We've done this before: to the railroad trusts in the first part of the 20th century, to Ma Bell more recently. Indeed, big media itself was cut down to size in the 1970s, and a period of staggering innovation and growth followed. Breaking up the reconstituted media conglomerates may seem like an impossible task when their grip on the policy-making process in Washington seems so sure. But the public's broad and bipartisan rebellion against the FCC's pro-consolidation decisions suggests something different. Politically, big media may again be on the wrong side of history--and up against a country unwilling to lose its independents.


Source: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0407.turner.html

 

Big Media & the MPAA
Posted on August 22, 2004 at 01:59:04 PM by James Jaeger



 

 

Sure you could say Ted Turner is sour grapes having lost so many billions on paper -- but that doesn't make what he says in, MY BEEF WITH BIG MEDIA, any less true.(1)

Turner: "This is a fight about freedom -- the freedom of independent entrepreneurs to start and run a media business, and the freedom of citizens to get news, information, and entertainment from a wide variety of sources ..."

Right now in the feature film business, 7 companies -- Buena Vista Pictures Distribution; Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc.; Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.; Paramount Pictures Corporation; Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation; Universal City Studios LLLP; and Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. -- monopolize 80 - 90 percent of the market and resources. These are known as the MPAA studio/distributors and they are part of "big media."

A similar theme of consolidation (a fancy word for monopolization, or at the very least, oligopolization) was echoed by John Nichols and Robert McChesney in their book, IT'S THE MEDIA STUPID, released in 2000 (with introduction by Ralph Nader, Barbara Ehrenreich and Senator Paul Wellstone). In 2000, IT'S THE MEDIA, STUPID stated that in just the past decade ownership of the media has consolidated into the hands of less than 10 transnational corporations. The largest of these do between $8 and $30 billion in revenues a year and are as follows:

WALT DISNEY COMPANY
AOL-TIME WARNER
NEWS CORP.
VIACOM
VIVENDI/Universal (formerly Segrams/Universal)
SONY
AT&T (Liberty Media)
BERTELSMANN
GENERAL ELECTRIC (NBC)

Bear in mind that the above companies own the above MPAA companies: Buena Vista Pictures Distribution; Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc.; Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.; Paramount Pictures Corporation; Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation; Universal City Studios LLLP; and Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.

In 2004, in his recent article (which neither the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal would publish), Ted Turner states:

"Today, media companies are more concentrated than at any time over the past 40 years, thanks to a continual loosening of ownership rules by Washington. The media giants now own not only broadcast networks and local stations; they also own the cable companies that pipe in the signals of their competitors and the studios that produce most of the programming. To get a flavor of how consolidated the industry has become, consider this: In 1990, the major broadcast networks --ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox -- fully or partially owned just 12.5 percent of the new series they aired. By 2000, it was 56.3 percent. Just two years later, it had surged to 77.5

IT'S THE MEDIA STUPID has as its central thesis that a free marketplace of ideas can't exist in a media devoid of diversity and only interested in crass commercialism. Such commercialism creates an environment where good journalism suffocates, especially journalism which is critical of the media itself. Because such a media will NOT discuss issues relating to itself, there can be no reform: the powers-that-be, in effect, refuse to make media an issue. This creates a bottleneck for all other issues that need to be freely discussed. Issues need to flow to and from the public so well-informed decisions can be made and a democratic society can breath. Thus the authors emphasize that making the media an ISSUE is the ONLY WAY to break open free discourse on ALL OTHER ISSUES of vital concern. Ted Turner is making the media an issue at this time.

Whereas an open and free press are relatively obvious, there is a far more powerful form of mass communication that subtly and significantly alters society. Such is the feature motion picture in its role as a long-term instrument of propaganda. Interestingly, years before Turner, Nichols, McChesney, Nader, Ehrenreich or Wellstone, John Cones stated in, WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON IN HOLLYWOOD!, the following:

"Unfortunately, there appears to be a significant number of people within our society that have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by movie industry propaganda over the years, and have concluded that movies are not important, that they are really only entertainment, and that they do not influence human behavior. On the other hand, once more people recognize that movies are more than mere entertainment, that they are, in fact, a significant medium for the communication of ideas, and that ideas influence human behavior--therefore, movies influence behavior, then it is likely that people will understand that movies are important, and that they are actually evolving into a vital component of the health and welfare of our entire society.

"It is then also easier for more people to recognize that they must become involved in making certain that the leaders of the motion picture industry more accurately reflect the diversity of our society. Such diversity at the top will, in turn, be reflected in the decisions that determine which movies are produced and released, who gets to work on those movies and the messages that are regularly communicated through motion pictures. After all, every citizen has a stake in what messages are repeatedly being communicated to the rest of our society, particularly when those messages are being communicated through such a powerful medium as the motion picture."(2)

And the "powerful medium" of the motion picture is owned, lock stock and barrel, by the very multi-national corporations, cited above, and with which Ted Turner has a "beef". To wit:

"These big companies are not antagonistic; they do billions of dollars in business with each other. ... You've felt the impact over the past two years, as you saw little news from ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, Fox, or CNN on the FCC's actions. In early 2003, the Pew Research Center found that 72 percent of Americans had heard "nothing at all" about the proposed FCC rule changes. Why? One never knows for sure, but it must have been clear to news directors that the more they covered this issue, the harder it would be for their corporate bosses to get the policy result they wanted. A few media conglomerates now exercise a near-monopoly over television news. There is always a risk that news organizations can emphasize or ignore stories to serve their corporate purpose. But the risk is far greater when there are no independent competitors to air the side of the story the corporation wants to ignore." - Ted Turner

The authors of IT'S THE MEDIA, STUPID emphasize that the media DESERVES to be made an issue because: THE PEOPLE OWN THE AIRWAVES, not multi-national corporations. Thus government action is needed and justified.

Turner supports government action by saying: "At this late stage, media companies have grown so large and powerful, and their dominance has become so detrimental to the survival of small, emerging companies, that there remains only one alternative: BUST UP BIG CONGLOMERATES (emphasis added). We've done this before: to the railroad trusts in the first part of the 20th century, to Ma Bell more recently."

Although some allies exist in Congress (such as Senator Paul Wellstone, Representative Bernie Sanders and Representative John Conyers) the authors of IT'S THE MEDIA, STUPID emphasize that the Democratic and Republican parties WILL NOT be the parties to make MEDIA AN ISSUE because they are too dependent on the media to get their candidates elected. The book also emphasizes that media reform, and by extrapolation, film reform, won't come from the conservative right because "...conservative critics (of the media) in the end, are handcuffed by their allegiance to maintenance of corporate and commercial rule, so they are incapable of providing real explanations for, and real solutions to, the problem they describe" (which is the "liberal media" they have been yapping about since time immemorial). With the exception of Bill O'Reilly who HAS been complaining about the liberal media's bias, more than likely, media reform will have to be launched by a coalition amongst the New Party, the Green Party, the Labor Party, the Democratic Socialists of America, Americans for Democratic Action and U.S. Action. Even Bill O'Reilly, on "fair and balanced" FOX NEWS, serves at the pleasure of his corporate master, NEWS CORP., one of the above mega media corporations. Thus even his voice cannot make big media the ISSUE or he will be canned as fast as Bill Maher was canned from DISNEY when he made what HIS corporate masters considered an inappropriate statement (albeit on a totally different subject).

Ted Turner goes on to say that "Indeed, big media itself was cut down to size in the 1970s, and a period of staggering innovation and growth followed. Breaking up the reconstituted media conglomerates may seem like an impossible task when their grip on the policy-making process in Washington seems so sure. But the public's broad and bipartisan rebellion against the FCC's pro-consolidation decisions suggests something different. Politically, big media may again be on the wrong side of history -- and up against a country unwilling to lose its independents."

Thus the authors of IT'S THE MEDIA STUPID conclude: "Media reform is inexorably intertwined with broader democratic reform. . . . Media reform will be a fundamental building block of a broad crusade for democratic renewal in America."

Ted Turner concludes: "When media companies dominate their markets, it undercuts our democracy. Justice Hugo Black, in a landmark media-ownership case in 1945, wrote: "The First Amendment rests on the assumption that the widest possible dissemination of information from diverse and antagonistic sources is essential to the welfare of the public."

John Cones concludes in THE GREAT AMERICAN MOVIE DEBATE (found at http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/amdebate.htm): "It is thus critically important that all concerned citizens in our society become involved in this national debate and demand that the free marketplace of ideas principle be firmly re-established in this important communications medium, that control positions in the U.S. film industry be opened to and occupied by a substantially more diverse group, and that the power to determine which movies are produced and released be shared more evenly among all of the diverse groups that make up our multi-cultural society."

* * *

Given the above, as well as countless other studies,(4) the writing is on the wall: It looks like "big media" and the "big media" companies that own the MPAA studio/distributors need to be "busted up." If this breakup does not also include the powerful and dominate MPAA studio/distributors that monopolize most of the distribution of feature motion pictures, the job will not be complete. It will only be half way done because the MPAA studio/distributors also monopolize most of the major talent, financing, state-of-the-art special FX technology and exhibition (not only in theaters, but over the cable system and in video stores). The MPAA studio/distributors are thus critically important because they are to the motion picture media as the New York Times is to the print media: the major opinion leaders that set the tone for what IS considered a politically correct issue to debate in our democratic society, and what IS NOT.

James Jaeger


-----------------------------
(1) MY BEEF WITH BIG MEDIA full text available at
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0407.turner.html or http://www.mecfilms.com/universe/articles/beef.htm.

(2) WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON IN HOLLYWOOD!, full free on-line book at http://www.homevideo.net/FIRM/whats.htm and other books by John Cones at http://www.mecfilms.com/coneslaw/conesbk.htm.

(3) IT'S THE MEDIA, STUPID is available through http://www.sevenstories.com.

(4) See Media Reform Information Center Links and Resources on Media Reform http://www.corporations.org/media.